CCA - Amex - Letter Received

[mitchstein]

I've been following these threads with interest as I have a similar conundrum.

AmEx instructed Brachers, and I asked Brachers to provide the required proof under the CCA. I separately sent a postal order to AmEx.

I have just received a letter that states "We write to inform you that, regrettably, we are no longer able to provide a copy of the application for the above account.
Although we are not able to provide you with a copy of the application evidencing the contract between you and AmEx, we are not prevented from seeking payment of the outstanding balance, as you have used your card and incurred expenditures since your account was opened in March 2007.
Please find enclosed a copy of the card agreement, notice of variations and terms and conditions of insurance.
We have also enclosed the latest statement of account showing: status of the account and amount currently payable.
These documents form the executed agreement between you and AmEx.

What are my next steps? Thanks in advance for any help. If I have to set up a (long) payment plan or make a without prejudice settlement offer I would of course be willing to do that if I have to.

[echat11]

Hi Mitchstein

Welcome to LB

I think in 2007, you may have filled in an application form, which is not an agreement. I'm not sure Brachers are being up front with you.

I would write back stating something along the lines of:

Dear Sir / Madam

Thank you for your letter of XX/XX/XX and the enclosed documents.

The contents of your letter have been noted.

Please note that the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) states in their handbook that if an agreement is 'unenforceable' then the Creditor must say so and must not 'mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement'. The guidelines can be found in the FCA's Handbook, CONC 13.1 - APPLICATION - Failure to comply - CONC 13.1.6 -

'(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.'

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

XXXXXXXXXX

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...te=2017-03-07#

https://lawzone.legal/when-is-a-cred...0unenforceable.

[mitchstein]

Thank you for your helpful reply.

I failed to clarify that this letter was sent by AmEx, not Brachers. Apologies.

AmEx have not yet assigned the debt to Brachers. Brachers have stated they are acting on behalf of AmEx.

Should I respond to AmEx along the lines you suggest?

[echat11]

Thank you for your helpful reply.

I failed to clarify that this letter was sent by AmEx, not Brachers. Apologies.

AmEx have not yet assigned the debt to Brachers. Brachers have stated they are acting on behalf of AmEx.

Should I respond to AmEx along the lines you suggest?

Yes, send it to AmEx Make sure you get Proof of Postage..

[mitchstein]

I have sent the letter back to AmEx today - the department is the "External Collections" team.

I'll update the thread with their response when received.

[mitchstein]

Update - AmEx sent me an email - I didn't actually make a formal complaint in the response, but I'll wait to see what they then come back with...

"

Thank you for contacting us regarding your complaint. At American Express®, we take all complaints seriously and are fully committed to investigating and resolving this matter for you. For your reference, we've included helpful information below about how we'll handle your complaint, including the timeframes you can expect. While we investigate your complaint, if you have any additional documentation or information you wish to be considered, please send it to us at the address below: American Express Services Europe Limited Global Customer Research and Solutions Department 333 1 John Street Brighton BN88 1NH Tel: 0800 0327410 or +44 (0)1273 576151 Facsimile: 01273 624026

Please include your Card/policy and complaint reference numbers, listed above, on all correspondence. It's important to let you know that we may contact you to discuss your complaint if we need further information. Once we have completed our investigation, we'll then write to you and confirm the outcome. This includes sharing our findings and explaining whether your complaint has been upheld or declined. We'll also provide the reasons for our decision, along with any next steps in the process. We hope this information has been helpful to you. Please be assured that we will continue to keep you informed about the progress of our investigation, and aim to resolve this matter as quickly as possible for you. Yours sincerely, Global Customer Research and Solutions For and on behalf of American Express Services Europe Limited

[echat11]

O.K. Update when you get more information.

[mitchstein]

O.K. Update when you get more information.

I've just had this from AmEx. Seems strange to me. They have still not provided the agreement.

Complaint Reference Number: GC-XXXX

Card Ending: XXX (Cancelled)


Dear Mr XX,

Confirmation of outcome

I want to let you know that your complaint has been investigated, the content of this letter sets out the details of the complaint as I understand it, my final decision and the rationale for that decision. Based on my investigation and available evidence, I am sorry to advise that I am not upholding your complaint.

Whilst I appreciate this may not be the outcome you were looking for, below you will find my explanation.

My understanding of your complaint

You raised a complaint relating to your cancelled British Airways American Express® Premium Plus Card. You are unhappy regarding a Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) related issue.

My findings

Based on our records it was established that your British Airways American Express® Premium Plus Card was issued on 27th February 2014 and cancelled on 24th May 2025 with a current outstanding balance of £XXXXX. The account is now serviced by an outside agency for collections. During your tenure with American Express and after the cancellation of the account, all the communications were sent to you in accordance with the terms and conditions of your card member agreement. Also, we are regulated by FCA and must abide by their regulations and principles. Furthermore, you also raised a previous complaint GC-0139OKY, and we responded to you on 8th May 2025.

As we acknowledge your complaint, please let us know the exact FCA issue that you are unhappy with, and we will make every effort to respond in full. Also, we would request you to get connected to outside agency for the payment on your card account.

Summarising your complaint

With the above information, I am unable to substantiate any error on behalf of American Express. Therefore, I am unable to uphold your complaint.

Thank you for your patience throughout this process.

Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)

It’s important to let you know that you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), free of charge – but you must do so within the first six months of the date listed on our final response. If you do not refer your complaint within this time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances – for example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was a result of exceptional circumstances. Please refer to the leaflet enclosed or visit financial-ombudsman.org.uk for more information.

[echat11]

They've 'fudged' the issues you raised in your complaint.

As it stands the account maybe 'unenforceable' through the Courts, they haven't complied with your CCA request under CCA 1974.

If you make Full and Final Settlement offers (templates can be found online) to settle the debt, mark the letter 'Without Prejudice', they can't use such letters in Court against you.

See what they do next. Update if they send anything meaningful.

[mitchstein]

Ok, so I think I just sit still and wait to see what they do? Because they have not complied with the CCA request I can ignore the "Also, we would request you to get connected to outside agency for the payment on your card account" because until they provide the CCA I cannot be pursued for it I believe?

The default is already on my credit file, so that is what it is. I can shortly make them a without prejudice settlement offer, and will do that as subject to them removing the default on my file (might as well ask I guess!). Should I pitch it at around 20%?

[echat11]

Ok, so I think I just sit still and wait to see what they do? Because they have not complied with the CCA request I can ignore the "Also, we would request you to get connected to outside agency for the payment on your card account" because until they provide the CCA I cannot be pursued for it I believe?

The default is already on my credit file, so that is what it is. I can shortly make them a without prejudice settlement offer, and will do that as subject to them removing the default on my file (might as well ask I guess!). Should I pitch it at around 20%?

a) Ok, so I think I just sit still and wait to see what they do?

Yes, you could complain to the FOS, but they have a 'skewed' approach to decision making, they may take into consideration the CCA 1974.
So yes, see what they do. Their response was telling.

b) Because they have not complied with the CCA request I can ignore the "Also, we would request you to get connected to outside agency for the payment on your card account" because until they provide the CCA I cannot be pursued for it I believe?

Correct, they still haven't complied, no doubt they'll move it to another agency. They can chase the debt (a waste of their time) but would have difficulties pursuing through the Courts.

c) The default is already on my credit file, so that is what it is. I can shortly make them a without prejudice settlement offer, and will do that as subject to them removing the default on my file (might as well ask I guess!). Should I pitch it at around 20%?

Start with 5 - 10%. You can keep making offers. Make sure 'Without Prejudice' is written on offer letter, you can also state that they have not complied with your CCA request.
Regards the Default, that may prove to be a 'hurdle' but ask.

[mitchstein]

Out of the blue I've now received something from Brachers (all communication previously has been from AmEx).

It states

"Please find enclosed a formal letter of claim. We are solicitors and this is the first step towards legal action being taken against you. This action could negatively affect your credit file. Please telephone the collections team on 0162....."

I don't see any actual letter of claim. The next page states

"Dear XXXX, Further to our precious communications, our efforts to come to a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement have not been successful. We remain hopeful that you will respond and that a suitable repayment arrangement is still possible, but until that happens we must now consider legal action. We are therefore writing to you in compliance with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.

The outstanding balance is XXXXX as at today's date. Please find enclosed a statement setting out the outstanding balance etc.

Youe liability for payment arises under a written card agreement between you and our client on 27/2/2014. A copy is available upon request.

Please contact us yada yada

So my questions are as follows:

I didn't sign any agreement in 2014. I had the card from 2007 and they have not been able to provide the agreement (as previously admitted by AmEx).

I don't see any formal letter of claim. Just that letter and then reams of pages of statements. There is no agreement provided.

Any suggestions as to how to respond would be appreciated!

[echat11]

Out of the blue I've now received something from Brachers (all communication previously has been from AmEx).

It states

"Please find enclosed a formal letter of claim. We are solicitors and this is the first step towards legal action being taken against you. This action could negatively affect your credit file. Please telephone the collections team on 0162....."

I don't see any actual letter of claim. The next page states

"Dear XXXX, Further to our precious communications, our efforts to come to a mutually acceptable repayment arrangement have not been successful. We remain hopeful that you will respond and that a suitable repayment arrangement is still possible, but until that happens we must now consider legal action. We are therefore writing to you in compliance with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.

The outstanding balance is XXXXX as at today's date. Please find enclosed a statement setting out the outstanding balance etc.

Youe liability for payment arises under a written card agreement between you and our client on 27/2/2014. A copy is available upon request.

Please contact us yada yada

So my questions are as follows:

I didn't sign any agreement in 2014. I had the card from 2007 and they have not been able to provide the agreement (as previously admitted by AmEx).

I don't see any formal letter of claim. Just that letter and then reams of pages of statements. There is no agreement provided.

Any suggestions as to how to respond would be appreciated!

Keep a diary of events, they are probably saying they sent something, when they hadn't, might be a scare tactic.

You could write back, send the letter Recorded Delivery state,

Thank you for your letter bof XX/XX/XX.

Further to your letter of XX/XX/XX I can confirm no Letter of Claim had been enclosed on XX/XX/XX or has ever been received.

Your CCA request is still outstanding, the account is 'unenforceable', until they provide a compliant agreement.

[mitchstein]

Latest update on this...

I emailed the following:

Dear Sir / Madam,

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Your client (AmEx) is well aware that they haven't complied with my CCA request under CCA 1974. They have confirmed as much to me directly in writing.
The contents of your letter have been noted.

Please note that the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) states in their handbook that if an agreement is 'unenforceable' then the Creditor must say so and must not 'mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement'. The guidelines can be found in the FCA's Handbook, CONC 13.1 - APPLICATION - Failure to comply - CONC 13.1.6 -

'(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.'

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

I have received a letter stating

"We write to you following your email. We are currently only instructed to seek payment in relation to the charge card. The charge card is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act and your reference to requests under that Act are incorrect and irrelevant"

What I think has happened here is that AmEx cancelled a business charge card which has a small balance outstanding (approx £200). So if I'm reading this correctly they want that payment, but are not instructed to seek payment for the larger amount allegedly owed on the personal card, likely because they cannot produce the agreement. They have been sneaky by putting this across two separate pages, with the higher sum on the first page, likely to try to get me to agree to a repayment plan on that, whereas the smaller sum, for the business charge card, is on the second page.

I plan to respond on a without prejudice basis to seek clarification on that and would consider settling the small sum so that only the other sum is outstanding as they then would not be able to contact me until and unless they can comply with the act. Would this be a sensible course of action?

[echat11]

Latest update on this...

I emailed the following:

Dear Sir / Madam,

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

Your client (AmEx) is well aware that they haven't complied with my CCA request under CCA 1974. They have confirmed as much to me directly in writing.
The contents of your letter have been noted.

Please note that the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) states in their handbook that if an agreement is 'unenforceable' then the Creditor must say so and must not 'mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement'. The guidelines can be found in the FCA's Handbook, CONC 13.1 - APPLICATION - Failure to comply - CONC 13.1.6 -

'(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.'

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

I have received a letter stating

"We write to you following your email. We are currently only instructed to seek payment in relation to the charge card. The charge card is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act and your reference to requests under that Act are incorrect and irrelevant"

What I think has happened here is that AmEx cancelled a business charge card which has a small balance outstanding (approx £200). So if I'm reading this correctly they want that payment, but are not instructed to seek payment for the larger amount allegedly owed on the personal card, likely because they cannot produce the agreement. They have been sneaky by putting this across two separate pages, with the higher sum on the first page, likely to try to get me to agree to a repayment plan on that, whereas the smaller sum, for the business charge card, is on the second page.

I plan to respond on a without prejudice basis to seek clarification on that and would consider settling the small sum so that only the other sum is outstanding as they then would not be able to contact me until and unless they can comply with the act. Would this be a sensible course of action?

Yes, make sure the correspondence has 'Without Prejudice' written on it.

So they are trying to 'mislead' you with their correspondence.

The FCA' Guidance to firms is that correspondence should be clear and not 'misleading'.

'They have been sneaky by putting this across two separate pages, with the higher sum on the first page, likely to try to get me to agree to a repayment plan on that, whereas the smaller sum, for the business charge card, is on the second page.'