• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

    I produced this claim due to the Mortgage business and Stealing my mums house.... Can someone help me with a good line of argument to the contrary please?


    In the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx County Court Claim Number

    Between

    xxxxxxxxx
    Claimant
    and

    The Mortgage Business Plc
    Lloyds Banking Group
    Defendant
    __________________________________________________ _______________________

    The Claim


    I, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx say as follows:
    1. I, xxxxxxxxxxx, (the Claimant) make this claim as the prior owner of xxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx the facts of the matter to which I refer I believe to be true.

    2. I, the Claimant took out a residential mortgage and flexible option agreement (Funding package for the mortgage) with The Mortgage Business plc on xx of September 2007 – mortgage number xxxxxxxxxxxx on xxxxxxxxxx for the sum of £382,500.

    3. The Flexible Option Agreement (the Funding section of the Mortgage) was stated as regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and secured on my home xxxxxxxxxxe.

    4. Unfortunately I was unable to keep up the payments on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxe and an LPA receiver (“xxx”) were appointed without my acceptance or permission in January 2012 under the terms of the mortgage conditions 2004 2nd edition and a sale was made on the xx of September 2012 for the sum of £279,000 by (xx).

    5. I claim that the flexible option agreement (Funding of the mortgage deed) which was entered into on or around xx of September 2007, which was stated as being regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for the sum of £382,500 was in fact in breach of the Consumer Credit Act because it was over the £25,000 credit limit which applied in 2007 to the Consumer Credit Act.

    6. The 1974 Act states: - “The Act does not regulate a consumer credit agreement by which the creditor provides credit exceeding £25,000”. Up until 6th of April 2008, agreements were excluded from regulation if the amount of credit or hire exceeded £25,000. However, this financial limit was removed for all new credit and hire agreements by the Consumer Credit Act 2006. Pre-existing agreements above £25,000 remain outside CCA regulation.

    7. The flexible option agreement which was entered into and signed in and or around 11th of September 2007 has two statements which are party to my claim:

    Statement “A” The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when the agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order.

    Statement “B” in the signing box: - This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.

    8. The LPA Receiver was appointed without the benefits of the flexible option agreement mortgage conditions 2004 2nd edition repossession clause because of statement “A” and in fact to enforce any action at that time they should have applied for a normal Court Order for possession, due to the contract being in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    9. The Contract was miss-sold and the implied terms of the contract of sale statement Regulated Consumer Credit Act 1974 was an aspect that I relied upon for my future protection, and I believe is in breach of Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977: for the purposes of this Part of this Act, “negligence” means the breach:
    (a) of any obligation, arising from the express or implied terms of a contract, to take reasonable care or exercise reasonable skill in the performance of the contract.

    10. Under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 I believe that the contract does not meet the reasonableness test as stated:
    Section 11. The “reasonableness” test:

    (1) In relation to a contract term, the requirement of reasonableness for the purposes of this Part of this Act, section 3 of the M6 Misrepresentation Act 1967 and section 3 of the M7 Misrepresentation Act (Northern Ireland) 1967 is that the term shall have been a fair and reasonable one to be included having regard to the circumstances which were, or ought reasonably to have been, known to or in the contemplation of the parties when the contract was made;

    (2) In determining for the purposes of section 6 or 7 above whether a contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness, regard shall be had in particular to the matters specified in Schedule 2 to this Act; but this subsection does not prevent the court or arbitrator from holding, in accordance with any rule of law, that a term which purports to exclude or restrict any relevant liability is not a term of the contract;

    (3) In relation to a notice (not being a notice having contractual effect), the requirement of reasonableness under this Act is that it should be fair and reasonable to allow reliance on it, having regard to all the circumstances obtaining when the liability arose or (but for the notice) would have arisen.

    11. I also believe there is a breach of the Sales of Goods Act as follows:-

    Sale by description;

    (1) Where there is a contract for the sale of goods by description, there is an implied [term] that the goods will correspond with the description.

    12. I also believe there is a breach of the Misrepresentations Act 1967, case law attached below. I believe to show that The Mortgage Business plc is a financial institute and holds a Consumer Credit Licence, their ability to claim that a financial body did not know the laws that cover their industry or this contract cannot apply, hence they did not take or make use of their expertise in relation to the terms of the contract when drawn:-

    Esso Petroleum v Mardon 1976 CA
    P: if opinion is made by a person with greater skill and expertise in relation to the subject matter, a reasonable care and skill is required.
    Facts: Lord Denning case. A forecast made by Esso on measurement of a filling station. They knew all the info. They were in a much better position than Mardon. In such case, Esso would know that the forecast will be relied on by Mardon. It is different from the New Zealand case (Bisset v Wilkinson) where both parties knew nothing about the sheep farming but pre-estimate the sheep quantities in the farm.

    Derry v Peek (1889) 14 App Cas
    P: definition of fraudulent misrepresentation by Lord Herschell, first need proof of fraud, if fraud is proved, then it has to be shown that the false statement has been made knowingly, without belief in its truth, or recklessly, careless whether it be true or false. Thirdly, if above are proved, motive is immaterial.

    F: Derry bought the shares relying on the Peek’s statement as director of the company that it could use steam power. But in fact not, so it wound up. Held: Peek had honest belief that statement made was true.

    13. The Mortgage Business plc knowingly sold xxxxxxxxxxxxxx through this misrepresentation and by doing so caused loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss, a matter related to the Fraud Act 2006.

    Fraud by false representation:

    (1) A person is in breach of this section if he:

    (a) Dishonestly makes a false representation, and

    (b) Intends, by making the representation:

    (i) To make a gain for himself or another, or
    (ii) To cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

    (2) A representation is false if:

    (a) It is untrue or misleading, and
    (b) The person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

    (3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of:

    (a) The person making the representation, or
    (b) Any other person.

    14. I believe that I have been damaged By (xxx) by selling my property without my consent especially when (xxxx) knew in 2012 by the BBC and National News article’s attached that the complaint of these flexible option agreements failure to comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 have already been brought to the public eye and UK County Courts attention and if its ruled that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 did not apply then the financial agreement between two parties would still apply.

    15. If the Court rules that there was a breach and the Consumer Credit Act 1974 did not apply to this agreement but the contract terms must apply then statement “A” attached herein must apply and the property was sold unlawfully as this term was stated for the protection of the borrower.

    Particulars of Claim

    16. If the Court rules that the Flexible option agreement was a breach of the Misrepresentations Act 1967 then I seek for the contract to be rescinded and claim damages, interest and payments made since the start of the flexible option agreement to also include my deposits percentage (equity) paid to be returned to me with interest.

    17. Insofar as it may be established at trial that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 did not apply to this agreement and that xxxxxxxxxxxxx was sold unlawfully then the Claimant is entitled to and claims damages for breach of the above implied terms in the flexible option agreement (funding of the mortgage deed) by reason of which the Claimant has suffered loss and damage.

    18. The Claimant is entitled to claim and does claim interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 on such sums as may be awarded to it, at such rate and for such periods as the Court sees fit.



    Statement of Truth

    The facts stated in this claim are the facts of the matter to which I refer and I believe to be true.

    Signed: ………………………………………………………… Dated: .............................
    Last edited by Amethyst; 3rd December 2013, 22:08:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

    Im afraid your arguments on the CCA regulation will fail in my humble opinion. The Act is clear that there is no sanction criminal or civil unless prescribed expressly by the Act.

    You ought to have regard to Rankine v MBNA Europe Bank Limited (court of appeal) too, as this dealt with an agreement which purported to give certain rights which only arose out of a regulated agreement falling in a specific part of the Act.

    I havent as yet had chance to properly go through the rest of it, but the issues with the CCA jumped off the page at me.
    I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

      I am not a lawyer nor do I have the expertise of pt2537 (are there another 2536 of his clone line somewhere?) but I cannot understand how the Sale of Goods Act 1979 might apply to a mortgage.

      A mortgage is not a form of goods.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

        Indeed, as i said i havent read the rest of it, i was in mid dictation on something and noticed this thread and the post on CCA . I cant see the link to the SOGA either
        I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

        If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

        I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

        You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

          Originally posted by djevoduncan View Post
          I produced this claim due to the Mortgage business and Stealing my mums house.... Can someone help me with a good line of argument to the contrary please? I, the Claimant took out aresidential mortgageand flexible option agreement (Funding package for the mortgage) with The Mortgage Business plc on xx of September 2007 – mortgage number xxxxxxxxxxxx on xxxxxxxxxx for the sum of £382,500.


          4. Unfortunately I was unable to keep up the payments on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxe and an LPA receiver (“xxx”) were appointed without my acceptance or permission in January 2012 under the terms of the mortgage conditions 2004 2nd edition and a sale was made on the xx of September 2012 for the sum of £279,000 by (xx).
          I am not a lawyer but I do currently have seven mortgages (and 30 others in the last decade) so I've picked up a lot of information along the way on the difference between regulated mortgages (residential) and unregulated (most Buy-To-Let products). The legal cross-over point can be when someone takes out a residential mortgage and then lets the property and vice versa. The mortgage contract legal status can change.

          The lender does not need your permission to appoint a LPA receiver. This option (for the lender) will have been spelt out in your Ts & Cs even in a residential mortgage situation. As far as I'm aware it's always a legal option after (typically) two monthly payments have been missed. Most residential mortgage lenders don't exercise this right whereas all BLT lenders do. However this option keeps me awake at night too.

          Can you explain why your lender went for the LPA Receivership option and not for possession proceedings through the county court. Was the property lived in by your mother at the time? Was she lawfully evicted?

          If it was me I'd also be looking at the circumstances surrounding the sale of your (your mother's) property at below market value (according to your post) and at over £100,000 less than you/your mother paid for it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

            Something else has occurred to me. From memory (so I could be wrong ) the TMB which is no longer in business only sold its products through intermediaries (i.e brokers and packagers) and not directly to the public. Does this mean you may have a case of miss-selling through a broker? If so are you aiming at the right target?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

              There's also the "flexible funding" malarkey to consider. Just what was that all about?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                Did you not consider a formal complaint to TMB about the underselling of your property if this was a residential mortgage followed by a complaint to the FOS, because they take a hard line on this? They won't intervene once you've started legal proceedings (only if the proceedings are against you). Were you given/denied the opportunity to sell the property yourself? Here's an example of the FOS stance http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...ears.html#cs11

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                  Originally posted by CleverClogs View Post
                  There's also the "flexible funding" malarkey to consider. Just what was that all about?
                  Indeed. It seems that this is not the first LB member to encounter this problem. Sadly this poster got no response to his problem

                  Originally posted by alibongo View Post
                  Hi All

                  New here and really need HELP!

                  Two issues;

                  1. On my TMB Flexible Options Agreement on headed paper from TMB it states ; "Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on...Property address" - This agreement was signed on by Kevin Wood on behalf of the lender on 14th Jan 2008.

                  2. Under the heading "Other Financial Information" it says Total Charge for credit is £129.50. This is made up of interest .

                  The amount borrowed was £354,375. - The term 20 years - The APR 7.9% varible.

                  On issue one I would appreciate help in relation to the agreement - is it enforcable as max sum was £25000? or is btl property exempt? Mortagage signed Jan 2008 before 2006 regs came in april 08?

                  On issue 2 I would appreciate input in relation to the figure which is wrong? that would indicate that TCC was 129.50 for 20 year term? does this figure impact the agreement?

                  tmb appointed LPA recievers couple years ago, since then tenant has moved, house is empty, but still no sale board ...can tmb not get a possession order to dispose? something seems wrong....read somewhere that debt may be unenforcable?

                  Thanks in advance to any kind enough to help

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                    check thoroughly the whole proceedure leading up to the sale, if you can find a crack you have may a slim chance of getting the case over turned in particular check the default notices were issued and worded correctly with precision.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                      Dear Friends i can only but thank you.

                      First off the property was a buy to let you are correct.

                      second there is the funding package (the flexible option agreement ) worded in correctly as regulated- now the conditions of this contract would still apply but would be stated as unregulated- if so the term:-

                      Statement “A” The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when the agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order.

                      Is headed in this contract as stated as your rights please read.

                      Then we had the mortgage dead which is the security, the security had no monitory input, that was the funding package above. but it did have terms of the mortgage which do give the right as worded to appoint an LPA receiver but it states this:-

                      18.2 we may use our legal power to sell the property:

                      a. even if we have not take possession of it and

                      b without the restrictions in section 103 of the law of property act 1925 (if the property is in england and wales) and section 20 of the conveyance act 1881(if the property is in northan irland) which is regulates our power to sell the property).

                      18.3
                      If you AGREE, we may use our powers in this condition even though you do not have to pay the debt immediately under condition 17.

                      So i beleve that under those two actions they had to take legal possession by enforcing a court order which they would have to have before they sold. we informed them that they did not have our rights to sell at that time in writing.

                      So the law maybe wrong but the claim correct??

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                        Don't forget at the point of signing our flexible option agreement it stated :-

                        Statement “A” The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers this agreement and lays down certain requirements for your protection which should have been complied with when the agreement was made. If they were not, we cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order.

                        So because the agreement couldnt comply to the consumer credit act 1974 at that time due to the £25000 cap on regulated agreements my argument is that they would of hat to of taken court action and not be able to appoint a receiver??? am i write or wrong???

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                          Hi,
                          How did things go with your complaint/claim against TMB.
                          Im in a similar situation with them.Their loan offers and conditions are very fluffy,if you know what I mean.
                          I have been studying my paperwork with a fine tooth comb and found various breaches.
                          Seems they didn`t cross their t`s and dot their i`s well enough.
                          Their brokers were very dubious as well to say the least.
                          TMB are NOT allowed to hold clients money either,,,,,,,so strictly speaking,are they allowed to take mortgage
                          payments of us,,,,,,I think not.Off course they pass it on to headquarters at HBOS.
                          Compare that situation to brokers who are not allowed to hold clients money,,,,,,,that means they are not allowed
                          to collect it as well.
                          I am one of those people who keeps every bit of paperwork just in case,,,,,,,,So I spent a few days going through
                          it all and was a bit shocked with the stuff I found.Any wonder they went bust and took MORE of our money to bail them
                          out.I found FOUR legally binding "mortgage offers",,,,,,,,,,three had the same date on them and all four were different
                          in various ways,,,,,,,,,I could go on and on about them,,,,,,the broker company that introduced me to TMB,has two
                          directors currently in jail for financial fraud,,,,,,Two members of York fraud squad came over to Northern Ireland(where I live)and spent three hours interviewing me about the whole thing.
                          And after all that,they want want to throw me and my family out on the street,,,(had a bad accident at work,broke my back and we are now in arrears),,,,,,,just not right.

                          I think I am going to scrape up a few pound and get a solicitor on to it.


                          IN the mean time,I would be very grateful for some advise from all you kind folk on this forum.
                          Even if anyone wants to share their experiences with TMB.
                          Thanks in advance for any replies.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                            Hey all, yes I may be able to help. Watch the Northern Ireland court service website for a chancery judgement in the next few months. TMB are currently looking at a settlement however if we can not come to an arrangement before mid June I will run to full hearing and show everyone exactly how to beat TMB. I have spent close on 1000 hours researching every point contained within their regulated credit agreement and SAR info. I know my way round every word and will post here and every other Internet fourm if they do not settle. I have submitted hundreds of pages of affidavits , yes they are that slack. To start with you need to apply for a SAR under S8 Data Protection Act 1998. They have 40 days to provide information. In there will be the keys. In the meantime I will continue with my quest and come back to all here in Due course unless we reach a settlement and I sign a NDA. It's actually simple when you know how

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Can ANYBODY HELP, Unregulated but stated regulated 2007 morgage agreement clam

                              Okay; I am going to have to do this over several days.
                              Check all documents carefully. TMB didn't give me all the docs in SAR so check all off against your own. DPA issue
                              1. Request TMB supply all Data Under SAR request
                              2. With a credit agreement CCA regulated you must first be given a consideration copy in advance of the executed credit agreement so that you have at least 7 days to consider the contents. This is were TMB has not complied with legislation in my case. This must be wide spread as I have 4 other friends in the same position, 2 in financial difficulties, 2 happy to pay for the next while. I have seen 2 other agreement s which prima facie do not seem to conform. Sections 58 and 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 cover the statutory requirements. There is also stated case on same. Again I will post the 7 relevant stated cases later. There are 2 parts pre Apr 07 court cannot make an order ......section 127(3)... after Apr 07 before April 08 court must make an order.
                              3. Default Notices. Before entitled to repossession must have been served in accordance with S87 &88 Cca 74. In my case they got their dates wrong so in effect there was no service.
                              4. Total Charge for Credit , not correct. 129.50 on my executed agreement 6342 on consideration copy
                              5. Requirements for total amount of credit not stated in executed credit agreement . Yes credit limit is stated but statue requires total amount of credit to be stated section and stated case to follow
                              6. RE recievers think you will find its in the agreement that they can only enforce with a court order

                              Some info for now

                              Comment

                              View our Terms and Conditions

                              LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                              If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                              If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
                              Working...
                              X