Possible claim action against RBS

[spookmeister]

Hi everyone,
I am looking for some basic legal advice regarding a long saga with RBS/Natwest which has resulted in me and my family being financially ruined.
Essentially my wife and I entered into a PG along with a former business associate and his wife for a construction project in 2006. The PG was backed up by a second charge on the matrimonial home.
The initial PG was joint and several and was for £50k. The bank manager came to the offices with the forms and we all signed there and then without taking legal advice or being given the option to take legal advice (Although we had to sign a waiver saying we didn't want to take legal advice). The bank manager basically told us not to worry and said everything would be fine (famous last words!)
In 2008 we had to sign a further PG (again joint and several) but the PG was increased to £275k. This time the bank manager came to my home with the forms, and again we had no opportunity to take legal advice or even read the forms (The bank manager didn't even have time for a cuppa!)
To cut a long story short the business failed (This was the bank's fault but I won't go in to this here as it's too long a story)
I managed to negotiate the PG down to £60k for me and my wife, and we've just remortgaged the house and given them the £60k in final settlement.
I am writing for any advice as my wife and I are adamant (my wife especially) that the contract or PG is not valid because the correct procedures were not followed. My wife feels duped, and we are now looking to recover the £60k.
The stress of the whole thing has caused the split of our marriage and separation.
Does anyone have any advice as to whether we may have a case for recovery of the money we have had to pay them ?
If this is the case then how do I go about putting a claim in ?
Any advice is greatly appreciated !!

[labman]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

I know this sounds harsh, and won't be what you want to hear, but nobody forced you to sign anything. If you didn't have time to read key documents you should not have signed them.

I sympathise with your situation and am glad you have at least found a way out of it without losing your home; however whilst I hope someone will disagree with me and give a solution for you, I believe the onus here rests with you. Sorry. :beagle:

[wales01man]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Must agree with Labman all of us who made personal guarantees for loans did so willingly no gun was put to our heads as for not reading the smallprint for as long as i can remember the advice has always been read them and if in doubt seek legal advice chosing to ingore all of this is no defence

[spookmeister]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Thanks for the replies !
The key factor here is that my wife was put under significant pressure to sign the documents by myself (and the bank) with no opportunity to take her own legal advice. I have read that there have been test cases in the past in similar circumstances.
I'm going to proceed with recovery, but am not sure of the procedure. I was going to write to the bank firstly, and then go to the MOJ, or the FSA, but not really sure where to start.

[wales01man]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

What pressure was she put under if by you and the bank then you must take a fair proportion of the blame>i like many on here who have had loans and given guarantees and defaulted have accepted that we knew what we were getting into,no one expects it to go wrong but we dont try to claim we were forced to sign anything under duress seems like you gambled and lost,As labman says (The onus is on you).
Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but banks dont hold anyone to ransom for a signature

[IanM]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Hi Spookmeister.

""To cut a long story short the business failed (This was the bank's fault but I won't go in to this here as it's too long a story)""

Will you please explain why you believe it was the banks fault that your business failed and tell us how the business failing affected your business associate and his wife.

I agree with the others that nobody forces you to sign anything but at the same time the banks are always quick to dish out loans, especially where they can get security to cover there outlay if you fail, but not so quick to advise whether the business the loan is for is viable or not, although you must have presented some kind of business plan when applying for the loan so you must have known the risks involved.

In 2008, did the bank manager advise you to take legal advice before signing for the loan?
Was there any cooling off period attached to the loan?
Was this explained to you at the time?
Did you sign a waiver for legal advice for the 2nd loan? (Even though you signed a waiver for the 1st loan that waiver would only apply to the 1st loan not the 2nd or any other loan.)

Without knowing more about the banks part in the failing of your business there is not much advice i can offer.

Thank you.

[spookmeister]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the reply.
The pg was taken out firstly between 4 guarantors (me, my wife, my business partner and his wife) - no-one was given the opportunity to take independent legal advice because we signed there and then, which I believe must contravene guidelines regarding undue pressure from husbands when putting up the matrimonial home as security. I (and more importantly my wife) believe the bank has failed in it's duty of care to my wife in that although she initially signed a waiver to say she didn't want to take legal advice this document isn't valid because I coerced her into signing anything that was put in front of her. (I have to point out that the wives were initially put on as directors of the company with no involvement in anything to do with the business).
Absolutely nothing was explained by the bank or anyone else to my wife really explaining to her what she was signing, and she certainly didn't get the opportunity to read the docs or take them away and sign them in her own time - it was with me and the bank manager (who also was witness). I really can't see how that could be good or legal practice? We never were aware of a cooling off period.
Maybe my wife and I are flogging a dead horse here - I'm not sure if I have any recourse or where I could start - it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that your average High St solicitor would deal with, or would I be better just doing it myself and opening up a complaint firstly with the bank, then the FSA?
I don't recall us signing legal advice waiver for the second loan (which was signed in an even more dubious circumstances when the bank manager just turned up at our home and made us sign within 1 min of arriving a £275k PG secured over our home and we again signed there and then - my wife didn't know about the increase of security - she just signed what was put in front of her. She never wanted any of it from day 1, but went along with everything I said and signed where I told her. We were foolish, but at the time it all seemed sensible.

The bank made the business fail by insisting that 2 of the units must remain empty for sale, thereby the interest on the loan couldn't be paid and the loan defaulted. Also the bank refused to allow day to day running of the business (paying bills etc) so it just couldn't function and then the bank agreed to the sale of the development at a big loss - I guess this is part of some high level policy to write off bad bank debts.

Any advice you may have most welcome !!

[wales01man]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

I coerced her into signing anything that was put in front of her
How can you blame the bank for your failings as stated on this thread the bank never held a gun to your head you also say (we were foolish) not the best defence surely good luck with your pursuit of a claim if it succeeds there are a lot of us who will follow you but at the moment it a very short line

[IanM]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Spookmeister, my first step would be to submit a SAR to the bank and obtain all the paperwork.

Was any solicitors involved in any way? If so, write to them and request all your paperwork from them too.

The answers you are looking for will be in there somewhere and until you have everything they have you will be banging your head against a brick wall, i know, i've been there!

Do not make any accusations against anyone until you have the files and keep any suspicions you have to yourself as well, for your own protection, if there has been wrongdoing by the bank, or the manager, they have ways to make your life difficult until you back down and leave them alone.

Once you have all the paperwork then maybe we can help although i can't promise that you have a case against the bank.

[labman]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

It's also worth finding out the exact procedure that should be followed. I find it difficult to believe that the bank manager just turned up and you signed for £275K PG's, secured with your home, without something having happened prior to him doing this. If procedure was not correctly followed, then just maybe you will have grounds for action of some sort. You need to be absolutely sure and do your spade work very thoroughly first though. Good luck!

[MissFM]

Re: Possible claim action against RBS

Just as a matter of interest - I do know of someone who successfully sued the bank for lending him too much money but it was a long time ago - pre internet - so can't find the reference (will keep trying in case it is of help to you Spookmeister). I believe the saving grace was that his (then) wife had separate legal representation on the insistence of her family. It was, if I remember correctly, extremely sad, as in those days Bank Managers had some responsibility and the BM stuck his neck out as was BEGGED for the money and was assured it would be paid back etc - then was the scapegoat when all went against the bank in court and BM lost his livelihood - everything.