Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

[padders]

Hello all, sorry if this is posted in the wrong thread or if i have not used the proper etiquette.I am new to forums and apologise in advance, but I could really use some help with a Section 75 claim I have that is ongoing with Natwest. I have so many questions it is difficult to know where to start.
Firstly I suppose would be, is there an average length of time for a Section 75 claim? My claim has been with NatWest for over 8 weeks and I dont seem to be getting very far with them at all. Is there a preferred time to take my claim to the Financial Ombudsman if i am unhappy with the card providers action?
Is there an average time for a claim when it goes to the Ombudsman?

All this stems from a Holiday Membership I bought back in 2008 with Incentive Leisure Group that pretty much delivered nothing that it promised.Unavailable cheap holidays, unobtainable discounts on flights accommodation etc and finally a promise of all the money spent after 51 months in the form of a 'cashback' certificate that i now know to be virtually worthless. Lots of info on Section 75 can be found on the internet which I hope i have used to my advantage , but it is all guesswork really and I would love to be advised by people who have actually succeeded in claiming their monies back by these less than honest holiday membership companies.

I have claimed stating misrepresentation of the above facts, but as lots of the 'promises' were verbal, I have no idea if I even have a chance to win.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Apologies if my questions seem ridiculous to you guys, im new to the whole 'claiming from credit card companies' thing and feel more than a little out of my depth.
I'll be happy to elaborate on the details if needed,

[Sapphire]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Hi Padders

More information needed hun, can you oblige please, and hopefully someone with Section 75 experience will pop along.

[Ladidi]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Hi Padders,

Welcome to Beagles First off, when you purchased from "Incentive Leisure Group" did you pay by cash, debit card or credit card? I have heard of some people who paid via credit cards being fully refunded due to this despot company charging for things they could not deliver and secondly, well last heard they are no longer trading due to the Director Gary Leigh dying in an RTA accident out in Spain and his wife raping the company of the monies it had in its accounts.

Check out these links..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/mone...avel-go-191315

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigat...y-from-il.html

I maybe wrong but the section 75 appears to be of benefit if you paid by credit card :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

If I can help you anymore give me a shout Lol

[Ladidi]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

JUST IN CASE THE LINKS DONT WORK HERE IS WHAT I FOUND UNDER THE SECTION 75..

Can I claim back money paid to ILG/PTG/DMP under section 75?

BY NICK SOMMERLAD ON FEBRUARY 3, 2011 5:07 PM IN TIMESHARE & HOLIDAYS

We've been getting a lot of worried emails from clients of Incentive Leisure Group and related companies. Even more than usual.
Some have seen this comment on a previous story left by Alberto Garcia, enforcement officer at the Resort Development Organisation:

The ASA's rule is a very good argument to all consumers victims of Incentive Leisure Group / Personal Travel Group / Reclaim Ltd, in fron of their Credit Card Companies. (Section 75). I reccommend to all ILG's victims that have not get their money back yet to write to their credit card companies, attaching the ASA resolution.

I've been trying to get some advice that may help those you who paid by credit card.


Gemma Bowen, head of investigations at Consumer Focus, points out the problems with taking legal action against a company which chooses to shut down. It could be difficult to enforce any judgement you might win.
But on using section 75 to claim a refund from the credit card provider, she says this:

If consumers made a purchase using their credit card there is the possibility that they can rely on the fact that the product was misrepresented to them and therefore make a claim for a refund against the credit card company using section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.The consumers could also rely on the fact that the giving notice of and adherence to cancellation rights were not observed as another ground for claiming a refund.
Our understanding is that section 75 will operate for 6 years from the date of purchase/failure to supply. Any reference to 90 days is likely to be about the protection insurance that comes with credit cards - this is not to be mixed up with section 75.
If you have used a visa debit card to make the purchase, you are not protected by s.75 but you can ask for the card company to commence a chargeback procedure.
A consumer should notify their visa card company within 120 days of the 'default' asking for the procedure to be commenced. The visa debit company will then investigate to see whether a refund should be made.

I've also spoken to the Financial Ombudsman Service, which might end up the arbiter of any disputes. A possible pitfall is the need to prove a "debtor-creditor-supplier" relationship - ie the person you pay needs to also be the one that provides (or is supposed to provide) the goods or service. This is from the FOS annual report:

During the year, cases involving claims under section 75 have included a significant number of complaints from consumers who had used their credit card to buy membership of "holiday clubs". Membership of these clubs - often costing a substantial four-figure amount - is supposed to result in special deals on flights and accommodation. But the consumers who complain to us about these arrangements say that the promised deals were not so advantageous when actually booked.In many of these cases, we find that the business said by the consumer to have breached the contract - or to have made the misrepresentation - does not have the necessary legal connection to the business that actually received the credit-card payment. This means that section 75 cannot apply - so the complaint against the supplier of the credit cannot succeed.

There's more on the debtor-creditor-supplier relationship here.
The good news is you have six years from the date of purchase or three years from the alleged breach of contract.
Finally, here's a case study from the Ombudsman that could prove important. The circumstances are rather different but read on:

Mrs J's complaint concerned a payment she made over the phone using her credit card. She was keen to sell the timeshare in a holiday property that she and her late husband had bought some years earlier. She had therefore contacted a company that said it specialised in such sales. After a lengthy phone conversation with a sales representative, she used her credit card to pay the company £700.Mrs J said she had understood from her conversation with the sales representative that the company already had a specific buyer lined up for her property. She said the representative had told her several times that it was a 'guaranteed sale' - and that she needed to pay £700 to meet the costs of completing that guaranteed transaction.
When she received the written contract a few days later, however, she saw that the terms differed from those she had agreed over the phone. In particular, there was no reference to any 'guaranteed sale', simply a statement that the company would 'endeavour' to sell her timeshare. Mrs J wrote to the company asking it either to confirm that it already had a genuine buyer or to cancel the transaction and refund her fee. In its response, the company told her it could 'not guarantee to find a buyer.' It also said it was unable to refund the fee and that Mrs J was 'bound by the terms of the written contract.'
After a further unsuccessful attempt to cancel the transaction and get her money back, Mrs J made a claim to her credit card provider under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. The card provider accepted what she said about how the timeshare company misled her into making the payment. But it said it was unable to meet her claim because section 75 only covered written misrepresentations. The misrepresentation in this case had been made over the phone. Unable to resolve the matter and get her money back, Mrs J brought the complaint to us.
Complaint upheld
The card provider was unable to produce any legal authority for its claim that section 75 only covered written misrepresentations.
Mrs J provided credible evidence, including detailed hand-written notes that she said she made at the time of the phone conversation. We saw no reason to doubt that she had only agreed to pay the £700 fee because the company said it had a specific, guaranteed buyer for her timeshare.
We told the card provider we did not agree that Mrs J was unable to claim under section 75. We said it should refund Mrs J's £700 and add a payment of £100, to reflect the inconvenience she had been caused by its failure to deal with the matter correctly.

So if you're credit card company says you're only covered for what's in the contract .. not true.
Good luck and please tell us - and others - how you get on by leaving a message below.
UPDATE - February 16 2011
We're now hearing from victims who are getting bills for maintenance fees when these had been paid in previous years. This too would be grounds for a Section 75 claim.
The first stage is writing to your credit card company. There is a sample letter from Consumer Direct that you'll need to adapt to your own circumstances here.
If unsuccessful you have the option of taking it to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

[Ladidi]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Hi found this information also which is what someone else did to claim a full a refund which was dealt with quickly and painlessly but a lot of work was put into it which is well worth it in my book for the right outcome..
I have just successfully claimed back the full monies invested in Holiday Club/Cashback scams the first time of trying.I did it on my own and did not need to pay anything to anybody. However, it is essential that every t is crossed and every i dotted - and it takes time and patience. I ended up sending a document with a covering letter which contained everything of significance. I constructed my document as follows:
Introduction ( when where who etc.)
Companies involved including their contact details and function in the deal. If they are under investigation for fraud or have just done a runner then research and reference web reports etc.
The Presentation - document what happened at the meeting with the seller
Financial - the figures of how much was paid as deposit and how and also how much was subsequently paid and how. Please note that you can claim the full ammount that you invested.
Claim Strategy - state on what grounds you are claiming which is already well documented under Section 75 and websites such as these.Remember you are claiming for misrepresentation and that you would not have purchased the product if this misrepresentation had not taken place
Appendices:
Copy of Contract with terms and conditions
Proof of financial transactions including credit card and subsequent Bank drafts
Copies of Cashback certificates + terms and conditions
Hope this helps and good luck!

August 14, 2012 11:58 AM

[padders]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Thank you all so much for the help.I will try to get a copy of the ASA resolution for my next letter into Natwest. Apparently they have moved my claim up to their 'Higher Exceptions Team' whatever that may be. I did use a credit card for the deposit, the remainder paid by bank transfer. The lies that were told to me were that we would recieve fantastic reductions on future holidays and most importantly, after 51 months we would recieve the money paid for the membership (11000 pounds) plus the supposed value of out timeshare (12000 pounds) this was the whole reason for becoming involved. Obviously, none of these things ever materialised and it seems we spent 11000 pounds for absolutlely nothing. I will keep trying and let you know how it all pans out. I am 3 months into the dispute with Natwest and have no intention of giving up.
Again, thanks for all the advice, and any more that may come.

[padders]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Just quick update.After all the hassle and effort I ended up with 2 rejection letters from Natwest. I have sadly admitted defeat and put my faith in a firm promising to make my claim on a no win , no fee basis. I have had it with all the upfront payment companies never doing what they say they can do. I feel very disappointed that I couldn“t get through this myself but I will still let you all know how it pans out. A percentage is better than nothing I have come to realise.

[Guest]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

HI

Can I ask what reason Nat West gave to reject your claim?

D

[arklst1976]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

How did you get on with this?
I successfully and fairly quickly got a pay out from Halifax as I paid £600 on credit card, for a ILG membership.

First I sent this:
NOTICE OF CLAIM UNDER SECTION 75
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 – BREACH OF CONTRACT & MISREPRESENTATION
Dear Sir/Madam,



I hereby give Notice of claim under s75 CCA1974 for the sum of £5995, due to a transaction on 08/08/2008, with Incentive Leisure Group, where a deposit was paid using the above referenced credit card for 744euros. (£600 approx), as there has been a breach of contract (Business was put into voluntary liquidation), and misrepresentations were used during the sale – as supported by the OFT see enclosed. Incentive Leisure Group were also successfully convicted of 11 counts of fraud in June 2009
I purchased what was said to be an EXCLUSIVE holiday membership to a Holiday Club with Incentive Leisure Group on 08/08/2008 (deposit £600), the balance of £5395 was paid on 02/09/2008. With the promise that I would be paid back in the region of 90% of the total cost price via Reclaim Ltd – now dissolved. The high court described it as... "access to a holiday booking system which is also available to them as members of the general public and which provides no particular financial benefit".
When selecting holidays, I have not been able to get a cheaper similar deal from ILG (DWVC), than that in the high street or on the internet.
Investigations by the Mirror.co.uk team have described this organisations dealings as a set of scams. Which as I have mentioned previously has been established by the OFT and the High Court.
I also include copies of the sales invoice and evidence of payments.

THEN THIS:

Dear Nannette,
Thanks for your reply dated 3^rd December2012.
I sent some of the information you have requested in my Notice of Claim, but will send all information I have and explanations with this letter.
Enclosed with this letter is the:
sales invoice and membership contract with Ts&Cs on the reverse – Point 1
membership certificate and Fee statement – Point 2
Receipt for Deposit Payment and Receipt for payment of remaining balance – Point 4
Regarding the 3^rd Bullet Point you raise:
I have not been able to resolve the matter with Incentive Leisure Group (aka Incentive Leisure and ILG) as they went into voluntary liquidation. The Office of Fair Trading successfully prosecuted this company, with a key point being raised was the repeated misrepresentations that were used during the sales. Incentive Leisure Group (ILG) were successfully convicted of 11 counts of fraud in June 2009.
I purchased what was said to be an EXCLUSIVE holiday membership to a Holiday Club (Designer Way Vacation Club – DWVC), with Incentive Leisure Group on 08/08/2008 (deposit £600), the balance of £5395 was paid on 02/09/2008. With the promise that I would be paid back in the region of 90% of the total cost price via Reclaim Ltd – now dissolved. The high court described it as... "access to a holiday booking system which is also available to them as members of the general public and which provides no particular financial benefit".


RECEIVED MONEY IN THE BANK IN JANUARY

Hope this helps

[padders]

Re: Holiday Membership Section 75 claim with NatWest

Hi everyone,
after giving in and letting a company get most of my money back (minus their percentage) I have gotten myself involved in a friends claim for the same thing, thinking i could help .
Anyway, my friends holiday club purchase was made in October 2006, and he/we have now been told by RBS that the claim is statute barred by the statute of limitations 1980.
I was under the impression that the 6 year rule applied only if we were to pursue the claim through the courts. That a claim directly against the bank could be made at ANYTIME.
Are RBS just fobbing me off, or have I got the wrong end of the stick.......again :-/