BCOB Regulations

Re: BCOB Regulations

Hi
I see
So just to be clear. We are saying that although some of the requirements may be applicable to certain deposit takers, banks are not covered in these areas because other legislative bodies do the job and there cannot be an overlap.
Peter

[EXC]

Re: BCOB Regulations

THis would seem to be an extremely imited guide then , what exactly does it cover.

Taking deposits, recommending incorrect investment oppotunities, is that it?

Peter
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.

firm must provide a service in relation to a retail banking service

which is prompt, efficient and fair to a banking customer and which

5.1.1

has regard to any communications or

financial promotion made by the
firm to the banking customer from time to time.

Underlined above

Peter

Yes it really is very limited and mainly deals with payment services. As s5.1 makes clear it relates to 'retail banking services'. Insurance and loans - although provided by banks are also provided by many firms who are not banks and don't provide banking services and therefore it would be impossible to have some firms covered by these regulations and some not.

Re: BCOB Regulations

THis would seem to be an extremely imited guide then , what exactly does it cover.

Taking deposits, recommending incorrect investment oppotunities, is that it?

Peter
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Peter, which specific part of BCOBS 5.1 are you referring to?

.

firm must provide a service in relation to a retail banking service

which is prompt, efficient and fair to a banking customer and which

5.1.1

has regard to any communications or

financial promotion made by the
firm to the banking customer from time to time.

Underlined above

Peter

[EXC]

Re: BCOB Regulations

HI
I thought BF was referring to the refunds of processed PPI claims and the delays in payment by the banks.
I would have thought he would be correct in that this would be actionable under the BDOB. Section 5.1
Peter

Yes that's what he was referring to but BCOBs only applies to the deposit taking activities of banks.

Mis-selling insurance and being tardy in refunding premiums doesn't go anywhere near BCOBs. This would fall to ICOBs or more likely DISP.

[Bill-K]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Regardless of the outcome, I admire Dougal's ability as a messenger. Why he has not been shot by the Idiot King - who considers his subjects as mugs - is beyond me. Maybe truth and sincerity is filtering through ?

[leclerc]

Re: BCOB Regulations

HI
I thought BF was referring to the refunds of processed PPI claims and the delays in payment by the banks.
I would have thought he would be correct in that this would be actionable under the BDOB. Section 5.1
Peter

Peter, which specific part of BCOBS 5.1 are you referring to?

Re: BCOB Regulations

HI
I thought BF was referring to the refunds of processed PPI claims and the delays in payment by the banks.
I would have thought he would be correct in that this would be actionable under the BCOB. Section 5.1
Peter

[EXC]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Just to confirm the above:

''PSD and BCOBS bring into force a new FSA banking conduct regime while at the same time replacing the non lending aspects of the Banking Code. The new banking conduct regime does not apply to all banking retail products, with credit cards and other consumer debt continuing to be regulated by the OFT in tandem with the new industry led “Lending Code”. ''

http://www.morton-fraser.com/assets/...ulletin_v4.pdf



''BCOBS will not cover all retail banking products and, for example, overdrafts and credit cards will fall outside the scope of BCOBS and continue to be regulated by the OFT.'''

Financial World Online

[EXC]

Re: BCOB Regulations

The question of lending is not referred to in the BCOB, ...BUT the critical point (in my humble view) is that the BCOB Regs relate to the Bank treating customers fairly...now I believe that this is intended to refer to all Banking matters, which would by definition include lending and any associated 'fall out', e.g.: going into the red, insufficent funds for DD and other charges and so on.
Just my musing perhaps...but what do you think?

BCOBs only applies to the deposit taking activities of banks.

''BCOBS applies to firms with respect to the activity of accepting deposits from banking customers, carried on from an establishment in the UK''.

FAQs

It is the OFT who regulate credit and therefore overdrafts.

Using BCOB's to take bank charges claims to court - as JudgeFodder suggests - is about as much use as tits on a bull.

The idiot is even recommending using BCOBs to litigate delays in PPI refunds and calling people ''mugs'' for not doing so.

Warning over PPI dispute delays!!

He is disturbingly unhinged.

[leclerc]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Morning all,

Can we just step back and consider this:

I understand that the High Court decided that the fees and charges could not be assessed for fairness under the UTTCR. ......BUT nothing was said about BCOB Regs, and indeed the 'door' seems to have been left open by the High Court for an alternative path to be sought.

The question of lending is not referred to in the BCOB, ...BUT the critical point (in my humble view) is that the BCOB Regs relate to the Bank treating customers fairly...now I believe that this is intended to refer to all Banking matters, which would by definition include lending and any associated 'fall out', e.g.: going into the red, insufficent funds for DD and other charges and so on.
Just my musing perhaps...but what do you think?

Best wishes to all,


Dougal

Treating Customers Fairly has always been part of the situation. BCOBs came into effect on 1st November 2010 which was after all the evidence was subimitted and they considered whether the OFT could assess charges under UTCCR's.

[Dougal16T]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Lending is not not covered by these regulations. I would have thought forgery comes under totally different criminal legislation. Havea look at the Frogery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.

I've left the original to give people a laugh. I did of course mean Forgery, not Frogery! lol :-)

Morning all,

Can we just step back and consider this:

I understand that the High Court decided that the fees and charges could not be assessed for fairness under the UTTCR. ......BUT nothing was said about BCOB Regs, and indeed the 'door' seems to have been left open by the High Court for an alternative path to be sought.

The question of lending is not referred to in the BCOB, ...BUT the critical point (in my humble view) is that the BCOB Regs relate to the Bank treating customers fairly...now I believe that this is intended to refer to all Banking matters, which would by definition include lending and any associated 'fall out', e.g.: going into the red, insufficent funds for DD and other charges and so on.
Just my musing perhaps...but what do you think?

Best wishes to all,


Dougal

Re: BCOB Regulations

What about a Bank forging LOAN AGREEMENTS.:beagle:

Lending is not not covered by these regulations. I would have thought forgery comes under totally different criminal legislation. Havea look at the Frogery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.

I've left the original to give people a laugh. I did of course mean Forgery, not Frogery! lol :-)

[Streetwise]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Morning all,

Whilst it appears that this is the case, I believe that it may cover other institutions including sub-prime lenders by virtue of the following:

Taken from the BCOB Regulations:

Annex B
Amendments to the Principles for Businesses (PRIN)
In this Annex, underlining indicates new text and striking through indicates deleted text.
Accepting deposits and issuing electronic money
1.1.3 G The Principles apply with respect to regulated activities generally, but, in
applying the Principles with respect to accepting deposits and issuing
electronic money the FSA will proceed only in a prudential context. That is to
say, in this context, the FSA would not expect to exercise the powers brought
into play by a contravention of a Principle unless the contravention amounted
to a serious or persistent violation which had implications for confidence in
the financial system, or for the fitness and propriety of the firm or for the
adequacy of the firm’s financial resources.
…
3.2.1 R PRIN applies with respect to the carrying on of:
(1) regulated activities;
(2) activities that constitute dealing in investments as principal,
disregarding the exclusion in article 15 of the Regulated Activities
Order (Absence of holding out etc); and
(3) ancillary activities in relation to designated investment business,
home finance activity, and insurance mediation activity and
accepting deposits.

Here are some examples of unfair treatment:

The FSA Conduct of Business Sourcebook rules make it illegal for your bank or your credit card issuer or your lender to treat you unfairly.

Banking:Conduct of Business Regs - (BCOB or BCOBS) gives you the right to sue your bank in the county court in respect of unfair treatment received in connection with the provision of retail current account services.

Unfairness in connection with the provision of credit card services or a loan is a breach of an implied term in your contract and you can sue for breach of contract


If you sue your bank for breaking the law under BCOBS, you are suing them for Breach of Statutory Duty.
If you sue your bank for breaking the law in respect of unfairness in a credit card or loan contract, you are suing them for breach of contract.

Here are some examples of unfair treatment.

Some of these are actually identified in the FSA guide or the BBA guide.

However, as has been pointed out elsewhere, these guides are rather restricted in their treatment of BCOB and are limited in their description of unfair scenarios.

You should check out BCOB rule 5.1.1 which creates a general duty to treat you fairly.

The list below includes common complaints on this forum which think would probably be a breach of the BCOB rules.
You can probably come up with more examples.

It should be noted that banks cannot act illegally either by treating you unfairly directly - or through their agents.


In no particular order:-
Refusing to discuss financial difficulties and to suggest positive solutions
Unexplained peremptory closure of accounts - the longer the account has been held, the greater the requirement of an explanation and of tolerance to difficulties
Unexplained peremptory withdrawal of overdraft facilities - once again, the length of time that the account or overdraft has been in place is highly relevant - especially in respect of small businesses
Refusal to accept reasonable repayment proposals on the evidence of an income expenditure schedule
Ignoring a letter of appropriation
Harassment of debtor on the phone
Charges on bounced DDs or cheques
Imposing an overdraft on a basic account
Charges on paid DDs or cheques
Treating bank-imposed charges as unauthorised - (RBS has already conceded as a "gesture of goodwill" on this BCOBS point)
Levying charges upon charges - (RBS has already conceded as a "gesture of goodwill" on this BCOBS point)
Failure to accept instructions not to make further payments on a credit card/debit card number
Refusal to cancel DD instruction
Refusal to offer basic bank account without good reason
Charging more than cost for duplicate bank statements - £5 fee is probably unfair
Failing to supply bank statements on accounts in difficulty where account fee is still paid
Reneging on an instalments agreement by, for instance, by beginning recovery measures directly or through an agent while the agreement is in place.
Insisting on payments being made only in some particular form such as by direct debit - and refusing to accept payments made by some other method, for instance Standing order.
Suing your bank in these circumstances is usually a relatively straightforward County Court action

If you really want to teach your bank a lesson that unfairness doesn't pay, then prove a breach of FSA regulations and then use that to challenge the fairness of the relationship under s.140A Consumer Credit Act. The effect of this could be to have the entire loan declared unenforceable.

I cannot advocate that people should avoid their legitimate debts, but on the other hand if it takes some debt avoidance to persuade the banks to start behaving themselves and to stop bullying their customers - then so be it.


Methinks more research is needed by yours truly....any comments anyone?

Best wishes to all:

Dougal

What about a Bank forging LOAN AGREEMENTS.:beagle:

[leclerc]

Re: BCOB Regulations

Good evening all,

I am always keen to be corrected where I err. However I cannot find an explanation of where this following phrase took place: 'The regulatory change put the OFT in charge in this relation. '

If you can help, please feel free.....

Best wishes

Dougal

If you read the OFT bank charges thread, EXC has put the details on that thread from a previous CAG assumption that was wrong.
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Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), Financial Services and Market Act 2000 ('FSMA') and Payment Services Regulations 2009 ('PSRs')

As of 1 November 2009 payment services will be subject to a single regulatory regime - the Payment Services Regulations 2009 (PSRs). The PSRs are designed to harmonise the standards of customer service for all payment transactions throughout the European Union. This changes the existing arrangements for banking regulation.

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) will be the new regulator for most aspects of the regime, taking over all retail banking conduct regulation for deposit taking and payment services. The FSA has drawn up Banking Conduct of Business rules and these will sit alongside the PSRs.

However, areas of retail banking which fall outside of the FSA's remit, such as overdrafts and credit card lending, will continue to be regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has a duty to license and regulate businesses involved in consumer credit activities provided that they satisfy the OFT they are fit to hold a licence. As well as retaining responsibility for the CCA areas, the OFT will also have responsibility for Part 8 of the PSRs which deals with competition issues relating to access to payment systems.

Read questions and answers on the OFT's role in enforcing Part 8 of the PSRs (pdf 140kb)
As a result of these changes the OFT and the FSA have agreed a concordat between the two organisations which sets out our division of responsibilities and how we will co-ordinate our work and ensure effective and consistent delivery of consumer protection in this area.

Banking conduct regime - The Office of Fair Trading

[Dougal16T]

Re: BCOB Regulations

BCOBS does not apply to overdrafts or unfair charges. The regulatory change put the OFT in charge in this relation. I hope no one on CAG is going to assume that this offers a new line for Unfair Charges cases because it does not.

Good evening all,

I am always keen to be corrected where I err. However I cannot find an explanation of where this following phrase took place: 'The regulatory change put the OFT in charge in this relation. '

If you can help, please feel free.....

Best wishes

Dougal