HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

[CleverClogs]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

The reason for their chicanery is surely obvious - they do not have the original agreements so, to protect themselves from a challenge under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - link - so, by pretending they are merely overdrafts, they can hide their negligence behind section 74 (1)(b) - link.

As they seem intent on playing at Silly Buggers, why not appear to capitulate to their daft demand for a signature and "sign" the letter using a handwriting font such as JohnLennon - link - in dark blue ink, as if you'd signed the letter using a fountain pen.

Should that "signature" turn up on any other document, you'll be able to shew it to be a forgery.

[lionman]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

"Signature" sent off just :-)

Surely though, even an overdraft is a form of credit and they should have a form of agreement for the bank account and for the overdrarft signed by me?. (I know one is possibly a bank account from ten years ago) Even so, a lot of DCA's and banks seem to think overdrafts are exempt from the CCA as far as what I have read, they are only exempt from part of it.

Good reading here and a case of a CCA covering overdrafts Help with Barclays Overdraft Default! - allaboutFORUMS (Coutts v Sebestyn)

[CleverClogs]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

Surely though, even an overdraft is a form of credit and they should have a form of agreement for the bank account and for the overdrarft signed by me?. (I know one is possibly a bank account from ten years ago) Even so, a lot of DCA's and banks seem to think overdrafts are exempt from the CCA as far as what I have read, they are only exempt from part of it.

Yes, indeed - they do have to provide some details on request, but the requirements imposed on them for an overdraft are far less onerous and do not affect its enforceability in the same way that a default contrary to section 77 or 78 would do.

Under section 74 (3) the Office of Faffing and Twaddling could remove the exemption of overdrafts... :flypig:

[lionman]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

Yes, indeed - they do have to provide some details on request, but the requirements imposed on them for an overdraft are far less onerous and do not affect its enforceability in the same way that a default contrary to section 77 or 78 would do.

Under section 74 (3) the Office of Faffing and Twaddling could remove the exemption of overdrafts... :flypig:

They should be classed the same as loans, it is exactly the same thing really. I am going to look into this more and get onto the OFT. Overdrafts currently seem to be more like a loan shark product.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

They should be classed the same as loans, it is exactly the same thing really. I am going to look into this more and get onto the OFT. Overdrafts currently seem to be more like a loan shark product.

It might be more profitable to make pannier harnesses for mail carrying, homing pigs. :flypig:

[lionman]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

Thanks to John Lennon my sar finally arrived :-) its about 20,000+ pages but its worth it. Clearly states some of these are loans and then I have letters from DCAs from a few weeks ago saying sorry your not getting a CCA because its a overdraft, I have proof its a loan now :-)

Apart from HSBC turning all of my loans into overdrafts it has highlighted some areas I needed help on. In the past I had a few mortgages with HSBC when I was self employed, they are all now paid off and at the time I told them I dont want any insurances because I am self employed and they would not cover me.

They only added PPI to every single one of them, so by the looks of it the bigger picture is this is turning out it might be a case of HSBC owe me more than I owe them, they have turned products from one thing into another, they sold me a homestart capital repayment mortgage which was interest only in disguise, added insurances I did not ask for to various products and breached various CCA, DPA and financial acts.

My lot here is only a small drop in the ocean, what sort of huge corrupt banking industry do we rely on here and how long until this bigger picture comes out in the press?.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

Thanks to John Lennon my sar finally arrived :-) its about 20,000+ pages but its worth it. Clearly states some of these are loans and then I have letters from DCAs from a few weeks ago saying sorry your not getting a CCA because its a overdraft, I have proof its a loan now :-)

If you press the point that it was a loan, what's the betting that John Lennon will have signed your name for it? :tinysmile_grin_t:

My lot here is only a small drop in the ocean, what sort of huge corrupt banking industry do we rely on here and how long until this bigger picture comes out in the press?.

The news media might not be interested, as the current pastime seems to be Murdoch kicking. That's not to say that Rupert Murdoch - whom I believe to be the spawn of Satan - was not long overdue a thorough kicking, but the press and the public can only hate a few targets at once.

I'm not sure that what happened to your accounts was the result of corruption, as it could more easily be explained as the product of carelessness, stupidity and arrogance:

1. carelessness, by not having filed the loan documents so they could be retrieved relatively easily
2. stupidity, which caused some nameless minion to conclude that lack of documents implied the accounts were overdrafts
3. further stupidity, in failing to understand how patently absurd it would be for one customer to have such a plurality of overdrafts
4. arrogance, in not even thinking it possible that they could be mistaken

Yes, stage 2 might have involved some sort of conspiracy or some jerk thinking it was a cunning plan quite as cunning as anything devised by Baldwick, but knuckle-dragging stupidity will also explain it just as well. Once the accounts had been rechristened "overdrafts", it would doubtless have seemed disloyal to doubt that.

[lionman]

Re: HSBC put all my debts down as "bank accounts"

Hi guys

I asked the OFT directly about overdrafts and CCA's and here is their reply:-

Thank you for your e-mail of 22 July 2011 to the Office of Fair Trading (OFT). We apologise for the delay in responding to you.

In reference to your enquiry, I have spoken with our credit team who have provided the following information.

Most overdrafts, but not all, are regulated consumer credit agreements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and would therefore be subject to the Act. Current accounts are usually regulated by the FSA.

Where overdrafts are regulated consumer credit agreements, they are often subject to the lighter touch regime allowed for under the Act. This excludes overdrafts from the operation of Part V of the Act which deal, principally, with the formalities of entering into regulated agreements, such as the form and content of agreements and the provision of copies of the agreement at the time it is entered into. This lighter touch approach only applies if the creditor meets the requirements of the Determination issued by the OFT under section 74(1)(b). This requires that the creditor inform the prospective debtor, in writing before the agreement is made:

(i) of the credit limit;
(ii) of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended; and
(iii) of the procedure for terminating the agreement.

This lighter touch approach does not however affect the consumer's right to request information under section 78 of the Act, though it will limit the information that the creditor is required to provide. You may wish to see paragraph 8.5 the OFT's guidance on Post Contract Information www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft1002.pdf and the specific guidance on requests for information under the Act www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT1272.pdf which may be of assistance.

I hope this information proves helpful.

Yours sincerely

Gurpriya Tooray
Enquiries and Reporting Centre