Barclays Personal Reserve

As some of you may know Sharkleys are the bane of my life (that'll be Darth Bane to any Star Wars fans out there )

Well, the bank refuse me an overdraft and I am depedant on what us called a Personal Reserve. They charge £22.00 for each week the Reserve is used. Without it I wouldn't be able to manage because half of my monthly income goes into the overdrawn portion of my account, covered by this Reserve. So on average I spend £88.00 each month on this Reserve PLUS getting charged unpaid items at £8.00 a pop.

This month I have had £158.00 of charges, which has taken me £40.00 over my Reserve, resulting in excess fees for next month.

Can I claim back these Reserve Fees? they add up to £2,000 all told now excluding interest.

They go back 3 years now since it was introduced by Sharkleys. I know bank charges seem to be irrecoverable now. Any views?

[jumper999]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Hi TDS have you considered reading the Banking Code and see is any way you could re-claim these?

http://www.bankingcode.org.uk/pdfdoc..._CODE_2008.PDF

There is also a lot of information about reclaiming reserve fees in various places too :reindeer:

[leclerc]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

I would get rid of the Personal Reserve and only pay the £8.00 charges plus interest tbh.
At the moment there has been no successful bank charges reclaims but if you are suffering financial hardship with you essential providers ie for house, utilities, etc,etc, then you can approach them under financial hardship.
Jumper, the Banking Code ceased to exist in November 2009 which was taken over by The Lending Code which is where the OP should be looking(it's the link on my signature in case you wonder where you view it from ).

[jumper999]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Thanks lec for that, LOL! I must keep up with the times. I have ticked that on my new years resolution list amongst a thousand other things
resents3:

[Turboman]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Hi DS - we have skirted on this in another place---usually your reserve is 50% of your overdraft limit & £22 every 5 days in reserve + £8 for bounced stuff if you over your resrve


If you fancy a big read--see here from 2008 where we discussed it

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...hlight=reserve

I believe (I may be wrong) that Barclays were the first to react to the Bank Charges threat to them & were first to convert their accounts to a "service fee" which required us all to accept-by default if not opting out

I implicitly accepted this also - and even if the Bank Charges arguments had been upheld in Court of Appeal/Lords etc--Barclays had pre-emted it by this Service Charge arrangement-& you can't challenge it (I think)

Nattie-

He can't do away with his reserve as he need it to pay most of his regular outgoings anyway--you can't opt out if you are in debit anyway

Even if he got the timing right and was marginally in credit & cancelled his reserve-your argument re pay the £8 is flawed---as every single transaction would be bounced thereafter at £8---ie his mortgage etc..

Unfortunately, he is in a Catch 22 situation & needs a fresh influx of capital

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

yep they got me by the Short and Barcurlys for sure.

I have complained now though, and will let you know what response I receive. I won't be holding my breath for a positive response.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

I have now had a final response from Barsharks.

My branch passed my complaint about charges and reserve usage fees to the head of CDCS at Barclays, the in-house debt collection department, so I could get some "specialist debt advice and help."

the letter I got states:

"I wish to sugest the following measures to aid you:

"1. I will not be looking to refund any of the periodoc fees...The Courts decision deemed that they were lawful.

"2.Your account shows that you incur fees to your reserve facility usage. It may be suitable to remove this feature. Between February 2010 - 18 January 2011 a total of 42 letters were sent advising you of the personal reserve usage. The letter also advised that you can cancel the personal reserve service at any time.

"3. We may be able to offer a repayment plan to help you reduce your overdraft.

"4.You may wish to speak to CAB, CCCS, Payplan, National Debtline

"5. Finally, I have no further suggestions for you."


Ok, right, so this was in response to my hardship letters. The bank sent 42 letters about the personal reserve and must have known that I was reliant on it. They claimed £3000 in reserve fees and penalties over 24 months as I have been forced to use that as a de facto overdraft. Due to tose fees, in December they came to £160, my mortgage payment didn't go through.

Also the bank charges were £30 and only reduced down to £8 about 18 months ago.

I guess there's nothing that can be done, unless anyone feels there is any mileage ibn going to the FOS? Charges and reserve usage fees have seriously affected our ability to meet day to day living costs but presumably the bank is not obliged to refund these even if there is clear evidence of hardship caused by them?

The Lending Code is like a voluntary, "pirates" code, right?

[leclerc]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Did you cancel the reserve?
Did you send them an income and expenditure form re financial hardship?
Did you speak to the companies who were not receiving payments as a result of them returning items?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Yes, Barclays were sent an i/e sheet.
No, I couldn't cancel the Reserve because I have been reliant on it. Catch 22. I hated paying them a minimum of £88 for what was efefctively an overdraft but had no choice.
With regard to the creditors, I simply made the payments later than the agreed dates. Screwed my credit and incurred further charges (you know about my Santander issue already).

[leclerc]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Yes, Barclays were sent an i/e sheet.

No, I couldn't cancel the Reserve because I have been reliant on it. Catch 22. I hated paying them a minimum of £88 for what was efefctively an overdraft but had no choice.
This is where the hardship case may fail. You should have cancelled it, because it would have made your case stronger.

With regard to the creditors, I simply made the payments later than the agreed dates. Screwed my credit and incurred further charges (you know about my Santander issue already).

So by making payments you still made the payments to the companies so there was no threats of eviction, being cut off or jail(with regards to council tax).
How did they respond to the hardship case specifically?
I assume you set this issue out completely separately to the claim to repay charges?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

Yes, ultimately the payments were still made (by help from family primarily).
I wrote initially with 2 separate claims: 1, the penalties causing hardship and 2, the reserve fees causing hardship. Both in the same letter but both were distinct claims.
I got a response from Barshark only referring to the penalties (refusing the claim basically) and which made no reference to the reserve fees claim.
I then wrote again, saying that both had caused me hardship and that i was reliant on the reserve.
I should add that Barshark partially upheld 2 earlier complaints that my requests for an overdraft were not handled correctly by staff memebers at my branch.
I then received the above letter which provided the aforesaid 'help'

[leclerc]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

I have now had a final response from Barsharks.

My branch passed my complaint about charges and reserve usage fees to the head of CDCS at Barclays, the in-house debt collection department, so I could get some "specialist debt advice and help."

the letter I got states:

"I wish to sugest the following measures to aid you:

"1. I will not be looking to refund any of the periodoc fees...The Courts decision deemed that they were lawful.

"2.Your account shows that you incur fees to your reserve facility usage. It may be suitable to remove this feature. Between February 2010 - 18 January 2011 a total of 42 letters were sent advising you of the personal reserve usage. The letter also advised that you can cancel the personal reserve service at any time.

"3. We may be able to offer a repayment plan to help you reduce your overdraft.

"4.You may wish to speak to CAB, CCCS, Payplan, National Debtline

"5. Finally, I have no further suggestions for you."


Ok, right, so this was in response to my hardship letters. The bank sent 42 letters about the personal reserve and must have known that I was reliant on it. They claimed £3000 in reserve fees and penalties over 24 months as I have been forced to use that as a de facto overdraft. Due to tose fees, in December they came to £160, my mortgage payment didn't go through.

"141. If, during the course of a customer’s account operation, a subscriber becomes aware via their existing systems that
the customer may be heading towards financial difficulties, the subscriber should contact the customer to outline their
approach to financial difficulties and to encourage the customer to contact the subscriber if the customer is worried
about their position. Subscribers should also provide signposts to sources of free, independent money advice."

That means 42 letters were sent and what did you do in response? You didn't cancel the Reserve because of the "catch 22".

Also the bank charges were £30 and only reduced down to £8 about 18 months ago.
August 2008 was when they changed the system so did you go onto the reserve or request it or was that when you first starting using the reserve?
I guess there's nothing that can be done, unless anyone feels there is any mileage ibn going to the FOS? Charges and reserve usage fees have seriously affected our ability to meet day to day living costs but presumably the bank is not obliged to refund these even if there is clear evidence of hardship caused by them?
I don't think you have a case with the FOS based on financial hardship based on the lending code since you continued to have the reserve, you paid late so not in arrears as such in spite of additional costs of paying late(please correct me on the arrears aspect) and the bank did contact you 42 times with regards to their obligations under section 141 of the code.
"137. Subscribers should be sympathetic and positive when considering a customer’s financial difficulties. Although there is
an onus on customers to try to help themselves, the first step, when a subscriber becomes aware of a customer’s
financial difficulties, should be to try to contact the customer to discuss the matter. This applies to both personal and
micro-enterprise customers"

When did you first contact them?
The 42 letters are perhaps part of the latter part.
The Lending Code is like a voluntary, "pirates" code, right?

The lending code works but you have to suffer extreme financial hardship for any refund of charges unfortunately.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Yes, ultimately the payments were still made (by help from family primarily).
I wrote initially with 2 separate claims: 1, the penalties causing hardship and 2, the reserve fees causing hardship. Both in the same letter but both were distinct claims.
I got a response from Barshark only referring to the penalties (refusing the claim basically) and which made no reference to the reserve fees claim.
I then wrote again, saying that both had caused me hardship and that i was reliant on the reserve.
I should add that Barshark partially upheld 2 earlier complaints that my requests for an overdraft were not handled correctly by staff memebers at my branch.
I then received the above letter which provided the aforesaid 'help'

Referring to the charges as penalties is both faulty in law and not the best way to approach the issue. You write on the basis that the charges are causing you financial hardship. The overdraft upheld complaints would have formed part of a hardship claim if the penalties aspect were not included, imho. If they failed to provide the overdrafts then there was a resolution of those complaints which you have already accepted, right?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

No, I didn't cancel the reseve because of the catch 22 and I was also extrremely worried that without it (even though it was crippling me) they would take it away and leave me really knackered

I went onto the reserve automtaically whwn they introduced it

Point taken about FOS and yes, the 42 letters did all invite me to cancel it but I couldn't. I was hoping that the bank not properly processing my applications for an o/d would help my cause here but presumably not?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

If they failed to provide the overdrafts then there was a resolution of those complaints which you have already accepted, right?

yes and of course they continued to milk me for the reserve fees and penalties. thats what I mean by catch 22.

I was hoping that there might have been some mileage to dispute their final response but let it serve as a warning to others to ditch Barclays Reserve if they find themselves reliant on it and if they can do so.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

FOS have promised their adjudication within the next few days. I will comment on it here when it arrives as hopefully that will help others when considering similar complaints.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Barclays Personal Reserve

The FOS adjudication arrived in the post this morning. I wanted to post it up but the scanner on my printer has decided it won't work, so to paraphrase:

When I wrote to Barclays advising them I was unhappy about Personal Reserve fees and requesting an overdraft as an alternative, I made the mistake of referring to "account management difficulties" and did not use the wording "financial difficulties." As a consequence, I was not deemed to have raised hardship with the bank at the time. In light of this, the FOS finds that the Bank have acted "reasonably."

The FOS takes the Bank's word over mine concerning Barclays' efforts to 'phone me. The Bank says it tried to call, I know they did not. Apparently I should have telephoned the Bank's Customer Review Team to discuss my financial difficulties with them, as writing to the Bank was insufficient. The same Customer Review Team that, when I contacted them on my Barclayloan, said they had called me when, in fact, they did not. Nonetheless, FOS happy with the Bank's account of itself.

The FOS are unable to accept that the £30.00 charges I endured prior to the £8 charges being introduced were excessive. The FOS quotes the court case and says that charges cannot be challenged, "we are generally unable to compel the bank to refund them."

The FOS agreed with me that:

1. The Bank's Customer Review Team could have called me but didn't
2. The Bank should have processed a manual overdraft application on my request overriding the automated system, even though it was foregone conclusion I wouldn't get one
3. The Bank withdrew my Personal Reserve without notice and (to quote the FOS) "I am persuaded that, given the length of time that you have used the Personal Reserve facility, trying to manage your finances without the facility would have been difficult for you."

Barclays have offered £150.00 for distress and inconvenience.