Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

[swepstone]

Mrs Boyce died of Cancer but was sold an unsecured loan on a static caravan. She was over 70 liveing in sheltered housing with no assets. I believe that the saleman miss sold the loan as he was fully aware and the FSO she was not eligable for the loan. She had paid more the one third of the loan before she died. The contract had no signatiure on the agreement at the time that the loan was set up.

Please help

[Tools]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

What outcome are you hoping for with this?

If Mrs Boyce had no assets then the creditor should be informed of her death along with a request to settle the account. They may require possession of the caravan to recover some of their losses and this should not be reasonably refused.

[swepstone]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

This has been going on for nearly a year now and is currently with there complaints department as we belive the loan was miss sold in the first place. They have been informed of her death and that she had no assets. They have said that they think that we the reletives should take on the loan. We do not agree with this as it was not our loan. The ideal situation would be for them to write off the loan. I have sugested to them that they take back the caravan and pay us the 14000 that is due to us as clause in the contract that states if over one third of the loan is paid you are entitled to claim the money that has been paid in this amounts to around 14000. The caravan was prurchased for 23000. I dont think that Lloyds will want to go to court over this as there salesman has broken so many rules and was sacked by them for miss selling loans. Also a senior member of staff at Lloyds admitted to me over the phone that she could not understand how this loan was sold as Mrs Boyce clearly did not meet the criteria. She said she would not get insurance let alone a loan. I have given them two options one being to write it off totaly and take the hit or to pay us the 14000 and for them to take over the caravan that they can sell and recoupe there losses. They have not replied and are in total breech of there SLA.

[Curlyben]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Honestly the chances of getting any payments returned are NIL.
Also after SIX months they cannot bring a claim against the estate.

So to all intense and purpose neither option is going to happen.
You can freely walk away from this mess, and they know it.

[swepstone]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Ben

So is there anything that can be done and do they have any right to demand any money from us. Also what about the fact that this loan was miss sold. Also they hold the dees to the caravan which is part of the estate. So by what you are saying if they cannot claim against the estate then what happens to the loan do they right it off.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

swep, I would honestly get legal advice on this. It seems to me that if she had terminal cancer, and this was revealed to the salesman at the time, then the loan has been mis-sold. I'm not sure who regulates financial advisors these days, but I once brought a successful claim for mis-seeling by an IFA to an old lady who purchased a bond & the investment return was shoddy. Now, for most of us, the response would have been "tough." But on the facts of this case the FSA as then was considered the vulnerability of the old lady and also it transpired that the salesman did not conduct a fact find properly, to measure affordability and above all, consider her risk profile etc. Not the same circumstances here, for sure, but have you sent a SAR to the company involved and obtained a copy of their attendance notes etc? Smells highly dodgy does this, but not because of her age (70 is no great age anymore and 70 year olds can buy and enjoy caravans if they want), but because of her state of health and low income.

[Curlyben]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

swepstone, please STOP reporting your posts after you have made an update.
I'm subb'd in so will check back.

Right to answer your questions.

1/ So is there anything that can be done and do they have any right to demand any money from us. Also what about the fact that this loan was miss sold. They are out of time on this and so are you.

2/ Also they hold the dees to the caravan which is part of the estate. So. They had 6 months to bring a claim. I thought you said the loan was UNsecured, so whats this about deeds ?!

3/ So by what you are saying if they cannot claim against the estate then what happens to the loan do they right it off. it's an unsecured personal loan. When the debtor dies it passes to the estate and after 6 months no further claims can be made.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

I hadn't noticed that this appears to be an insolvent estate. If so, then, that is correct, nothing is due back to lloyds.

However, just to clarify this 6 months point. A solvent estate IS liable for all debts whenever they are notified UNLESS the 6 year statutory limitation period has expired without a creditior making a claim against the estate.

I know of no law that says that an estate is off the hook just because 6 months have elapsed since date of death. That is just not correct.

However, where the PRs place a stautory advertisement in the local and national press (typically the London Gazette) advertising for creditors AND no one comes forward within (typically) 2 months of the date of that advert, then the PRs are protected from any further unknown claims that may surface.

However, I am surmising that this is an insolvent estate anyway.

Swep I think is looking for compensation for a mis-sold loan and is not only worrying about being pursued. If there is any compensation to be had then the PRs are obliged to look into this.

[Curlyben]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Either way the debt is due to the Estate and they are unlikely to make a claim.

To be brutally honest here, and you probably wont like it, but I believe any cause of action has ceased due to the expiration of the debtor.
You will NOT get anything back from the OC as the debtor (estate) has all the benefit.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Yes, the estate has the caravan, true, but presumably that is what the creditor is looking to recover. In that sense, is the estate insolvent? Probably not and van may need to be sold to pay creditors (funeral, legal costs and PRs expenses first in priority). Is the loan secured on the caravan (I'm not a caravan owner but assume statics have something akin to 'deeds')?

[swepstone]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Thanks for your responces that has been very helpfull. It would seem that from what you are saying is that Lloyds dont have any claim against the estate because of the time laps.

The loan was un secured with no insurance. It was for the purchase of a static caravan but the van was not security for the loan. The CCA states that as more then a third as been paid off the loan the lender cannot claim goods in leiu of payment.

As the caravan is part of the estate as per the will they cannot claim on it anyway and there are no other funds in the estate.

I have made Lloyds two options to resolve this and the first one would be to write off the loan. With this they loose appart fromwhat has already been paid to them.

The second option is slightly more in there favour and that is for them to take over the van and for them to sell it but they would need to pay us the 14000. They could sell it for around 20000 and be 6000 better off and everyone is happy.

The final option is i just say to them lets go to court and I dont think they will be that keen on that due to the publicity of selling a loan to someone with cancer. Not good press.

You said about the age this well that come from the FSA guidlines on selling eligable un secured loans and goes from 22 to 65. I know what you say that 70 year olds are capable of paying loans it is just that they are the FSA rules that all banks have to comply with.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Thanks for your responces that has been very helpfull. It would seem that from what you are saying is that Lloyds dont have any claim against the estate because of the time laps.

No. That is not right.

The loan was un secured with no insurance. It was for the purchase of a static caravan but the van was not security for the loan. The CCA states that as more then a third as been paid off the loan the lender cannot claim goods in leiu of payment.

As the caravan is part of the estate as per the will they cannot claim on it anyway and there are no other funds in the estate.

Yes they can claim on the estate.

The van is an asset of the estate. The critical thing is whether the estate is technically solvent or insolvent ie do the total debts (aside from the van loan) outweigh the assets in value? If they don't then the estate is solvent and the equity in the van can be taken into account by creditors.

I have made Lloyds two options to resolve this and the first one would be to write off the loan. With this they loose appart fromwhat has already been paid to them.

The second option is slightly more in there favour and that is for them to take over the van and for them to sell it but they would need to pay us the 14000. They could sell it for around 20000 and be 6000 better off and everyone is happy.

The final option is i just say to them lets go to court and I dont think they will be that keen on that due to the publicity of selling a loan to someone with cancer. Not good press.

Did she have cancer when they sold the loan? Did they know that? Have you spoken to Consumer Direct for some advice yet?

You said about the age this well that come from the FSA guidlines on selling eligable un secured loans and goes from 22 to 65. I know what you say that 70 year olds are capable of paying loans it is just that they are the FSA rules that all banks have to comply with.

I agree. The cancer, the age factor, the fact that the salesman has a 'history'...I personally think this was mis-sold o her but others here have a different view. I think you should start a formal complaint with the Consumer Credit Compliance Officer at Lloyds and also perhaps send a Subjcet Access Request to see if a proper fact find was conducted.

Would be interested to know what the total of the estate's assets and liabilities are though, with and without the Lloyds unsecured loan.

[swepstone]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Thanks for your responce and yes he did know that she had Cancer at the time of sale as he was told that she had just finished a course of radio therepy and she was on the site to conveless. There wasa witness at the time of sale but none for Lloyds. This is sitting currently with Lloyds complaints department and has been since April this year and they have not once answered any of my letters.

I have spoken to them again this week as they asked me to send the letters again as the woman dealing with it in complaints had stated that she had not recieved them although they are in the same building strange excuse but I played the game and sent them for her attension and gave her the 10 days as per the Lloyds SLA. I phoned and reminded them that they had broken FSA guidlines about 6 times and that if they did not respond I would be reporting them to the FSA. They have agreed to provide me with a response by the end of this week. I wont hold my breath. They did also make a silly mistake as one of there senior members of staff had said to me over the phone that they agreed that the loan had been miss sold.

What is a subject access request.

I have not spoken to consumer credit direct about this but I think I will now that you have mensioned it.

If it is agreed that the loan was miss sold what will happen.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

Hi Swep. I asked an IFA for his view on this matter and this was his response:

"The first point of call is the IFA's registered firm. The FSA site will give details or I can get them for you if you like.

"Unsecured loans are not regulated by the FSA but do come under the OFT licencing rules.

"So complain to the IFA firm first, escalate through the OFT complaints procedures when the IFA firm start messing around.

"It sounds to me as though there is a very good case to answer."

Contact the OFT about the irregularities of this loan. Consumer Direct are contacted on-line and they will automatically refer your complaint to the Trading Standards Board local to Lloyds HO for you. I believe that the OFT will refer you to the Financial Ombudsman Service

Your next step is therefore to complain to the FOS, the OFT and Consumer Direct. Do all 3. Go on-line and fill in the FOS complaint form and send this to them with copies of your letters and transcripts of your 'phone calls to Lloyds, plus a copy of the agreement itself and any paperwork relating to it eg letetrs from Lloyds to the deceased. The FOS will then give Lloyds 8 weeks to respond.

A Subject Access request is a request for all data held by lloyds on the deceased. I am assuming your are the Personal Representatives? Was there a will or did she die intestate? If there was a will and you are the Executors then you automatically have authority to request this infornation. You need to send Lloyds £10.00 and the letter requesting a Subject Access Request to Lloyds. The PRs are the only persons entitkled to ask for this information. If she died intestate (without a valid will) then the PRs are the Administrators and are usually (although not always) the next of kin. The Administrators do not have authomatic authority on the death of the deceased; they need to be appointed as Administartors of the esatte under a Grant of Letters of Administration. Please advise what the position is.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Lloyds Blackhorse unsecured loans

On the information I have read so far ..........this was not a loan ......it was a hire purchase agreement..................and there is a BIG BIG difference.
Sparkie