PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

[RUBY2015]

Hello All

I would like some advice on a PCN issued which I received back in January 2015 from the council. I submitted a challenge within 14 days via the councils website because I could not see anything on the pictures they had provided and there was no video evidence available to view. The council finally got back to me after about 70 days referring me to a link which had not come back with any video evidence when I first tried to view it. I would like to know if this is acceptable since I had to respond to them within a time frame? Also the video footage shows my car in the box junction but it does not show what was happening in front of me so I cannot see whether a car changed lanes as I moved forward. I remember there were temporary traffic lights ahead of me due to road works which have since been removed but I cannot remember anything else since it was so long ago and the council have taken so long to respond. The council simply say they are satisfied I moved forward when I should not have done so. Do I have a right to see any other footage or is it enough just to show my car stopping in the box junction? Thanks Rubes

[des8]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

Hi and welcome.
The council have to respond to your representations within 56 days or cancel the PCN
http://www.patas.gov.uk/tmaadjudicat...nforcement.htm

The enforcement authority considers your representations

The authority must, before the end of 56 days beginning with the date on which they receive representations:

• Consider representations received in time;
• Decide whether to accept or reject them;
• Serve on the person who made the representations:
• A Notice of Acceptance, if it accepts them; or
• A Notice of Rejection and a Notice of Appeal form, if it does not accept them

If the authority fail to respond within 56 days, they will be deemed to have accepted the grounds in question
If they have accepted the representations or failed to respond within 56 days, cancel the Notice to Owner (where the Penalty Charge Notice was served at the scene) or the Penalty Charge Notice (where this was served by post) and refund any sums paid

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

Hi Des8 are you saying the response time is 56 days when submitting a challenge online within the first 14 days? If so, the council are refusing to cancel? I asked them what were the regulations for them responding to me and they came back with we are not going to cancel the PCN. They did not even address what the regulations were. Why would they do this?

[des8]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

Which council are we talking about?
I had assumed a London council, but it seems you might be elsewhere.
Sorry!

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

hammersmith and fulham

[Kati]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

I think [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]'s link will still be useful then H&F are still bound by patas

[des8]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

quite right Kati PATAS rules!
With the Notice of Rejection did they include a Notice of Appeal Form?

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

quite right Kati PATAS rules!
With the Notice of Rejection did they include a Notice of Appeal Form?

Yes, I am going to appeal to the adjudicator

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

I submitted an appeal but have received a charge certificate from the council even though the adjudicator has not ruled on my case. I spoke to the council about the charge certificate and they said it was issued because PATAS had not informed them I was appealing. The council have said I must pay the £195 charge certificate unless PATAS informs them I have submitted an appeal. PATAS or London Tribunals, as they are now known, has a backlog since they are re-branding which has also meant delays in their administration. At this moment in time they are not even in a position to confirm they have my appeal. Should I pay the charge certificate and if I win the appeal ask for my money back?

[des8]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

Here's what you have to do:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/con...ry-declaration

You don't pay.
Eventually you will be sent an order for recovery, following which you make a statutory declaration as per the link.

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

thank you, I will do that

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

My appeal was rejected by the adjudicator. However, for some reason they ignored the point regarding the time it had taken H&F to respond to my challenge. Is there anyone else I can appeal to? Do I have to accept the decision and pay?

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

My appeal was rejected by the adjudicator. However, for some reason they ignored the point regarding the time it had taken H&F to respond to my challenge. Is there anyone else I can appeal to? Do I have to accept the decision and pay?

It would be wise, before they pass it to an Enforcement Agency.

[RUBY2015]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

It would be wise, before they pass it to an Enforcement Agency.

I may have to pay the ticket. I would like an answer to know why the council can still pursue me when they took so long to respond.

[des8]

Re: PCN for stopping in box junction issued by camera

You can ask for a review of the adjudicator's decision:
A. Review under Regulation 11 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended

A review may only be granted in the following limited cases:

1. the decision was wrongly made because of an error by our administrative staff;
2. you failed to appear or be represented at a hearing for some good reason;
3. there is new evidence and the existence of this could not have been reasonably known of or foreseen before the decision;
4. the interests of justice require a review.
Adjudicator's findings of fact are normally regarded as final and will only be overturned if they are plainly incompatible with the evidence that was before the Adjudicator. The mere fact that you disagree with these findings is not a ground for review.

I would suggest that ground 4 is your best bet.
To prevent added costs of enforcement, it may be worth paying the penalty and look to recovery if your review (if granted) is successful.