Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

[council_woes]

Hi, I'm having some issues with council tax and the accounts have been passed on to bailiffs. Hoping for any advice I can get to make the situation better. Will try to keep as short as possible.

Background

• Council tax debts for several properties (moved a lot - many problems) going back to 2010/11.
• Big problem with aggressive bailiff action in 2013 - formal complaint (copied to MP and councillors) got the accounts back with the council.
• 3 liability orders - 2 on same property, different years - the one where I had the bailiff problems). 1 granted 9 April 2015.
• Payments have been sporadic, had an agreement set up last year and set one up earlier this year.

Current situation

• Contacted the council at the very beginning of this year to set up another repayment plan. Offered £77 per month on arrears account (balance around £2,000). Mentioned significant mental health problems in email which caused prolonged sick leave last year resulting in difficulty keeping to the arrangement.
• After sending income and expenditure showing I can afford £77, got letters detailing repayment plans for all the accounts at £100 per month.
• Failed to make payments - contacted council in late March to find out what I needed to pay to get things right.
• Forgoed a lot of other bills and paid £594.73 across the accounts on 10 April - clearing the balance for 2014/15 and 'catching up' with the other accounts.
• Received enforcement notices from Jacobs dated 24/04/15 and 27/04/15 for the two liability orders on same property (mentioned above). Phoned council on 30 April 2015 who said these had been sent out in error and to ignore them.
• I did not make the payment required until the repayment agreement which was 'due' 28 April 2015 (genuinely forgot, thought as I'd paid during April I didn't have anything to pay until end of May).
• Received enforcement notices from Jacobs dated 08/05/15 and 12/05/15. One for the same property mentioned above and one for the liability order granted this year for more recent bill - as I made payment on 10 April 2015 this is now only for the liability order fee of £42 (which now has £75 added compliance stage).
• Phoned council today and told the other liability order is with Equita, but I haven't heard anything from them (yet!!).

Issues

• Council did not accept reasonable offer I made of £77 per month.
• After I mentioned significant mental health problems this was never mentioned by the council - I have occupational health reports and many sick notes that I could provide.
• I made a large payment in the middle of April - this showed a clear intent to try to get these things sorted and they've been very quick to send to bailiffs.
• They've been particularly quick with the more recent account. Liability order granted 9 April, I made a payment 10 April so they are now just chasing the liability order fee 29 days later.
• In the letters from January confirming the agreements, they say "If you don't make the payments that you have agreed this time, and we haven't had any further contact from you, your account will be automatically passed to an enforcement agent for collection without further notice". Well, I have had contact. They have sent the accounts as I didn't not make the payment due 28 April, but I had contact after that on 30 April discussing the account.

Apart from that, I've been reading up tonight and I think their documentation is ok.

Is there anything I can do about this? I really don't want to deal with the bailiffs. Can I request it goes back to the council and they absorb the enforcement charges, based on what I've said above? The accounts are now on hold for 14 days following the conversation I had with the council today.

Thanks, any help very much appreciated.

[PAWS]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Just giving this a little bump and hopefully someone with the right knowledge will be along soon. :bump2:

[Guest]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

I'll have a go at this-I read it the other night and didn't think that I could help. I will try to explain the current situation:

You managed to get the case taken back. This would have been a final opportunity to deal with the council. You have missed payments since, so the council have returned it for enforcement. I don't see any way that you can get this returned for a second time.

£77 per month would take over 2 years to pay back £2000. The extra fiver a week, bringing it up to £100 per month is not harsh or overly excessive on the face of it. You could check out what you would be required to pay under an AOE and see if that works out less-If so, contact the council and point this out.

You should write to the council asking for a complete breakdown of accounts, asking:
1. How much was owed on each when the LO was issued
2. How much is currently owed on each
3. The dates that any enforcement fees were added
4. The amount of these fees
5. The reason for these fees.

I can't help further than that. A repayment plan can be set up with the bailiffs, meaning that you won't have to deal with them face to face but lets see what they claim you owe.

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Thanks for the responses. Do you think any of my issues/arguments are valid?

It had been complicated and I've has major debts problems the past several years. Also there has been some other issues, with one of the properties I thought I'd paid until the end of the term, only to find out later I hadn't. On the property with two liability orders I was lied to be the agent/landlord who said they were paying the council tax (naive on my part I know) and the single person discount was never applied - I filled the form in really late and it was lost by the council. Regarding the breakdown of accounts, I'm pretty sure on all of the answers to those questions and I don't think there are any major issues.

I guess my main annoyance is that since the formal complaint, sometimes I've gone months without making a payment (not trying to defend this at all). Then when I've been in contact with the council, trying to sort it out and make a large payment it very quickly gets sent to the bailiff afterwards.

I've already told the council I'll be raising a formal complaint so I will be doing so, I guess based on the above.

How would I work out how much I would have to pay under an AOE?

Any more thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

There is no harm in issuing a formal complaint. I personally don't think you will succeed but you have more chance of doing so by sending one in. It also gives you an opportunity to place on record your vulnerability and also unstable working patterns, due to your health issues.

My concern with the breakdown of accounts was to see if the money paid could have seen off two debts, meaning that you only had one set of fees to contend with. It seems harsh to have to pay £75 bailiff fees for a £42 debt.

Also, your first post was a bit confusing. You stated that you paid one debt off and then said that Jacobs had 2 accounts and a third one was going to Equita. If you do have 2 separate companies chasing you, you need to add this to your complaint because they really should all be with one company. It is unreasonable to expect you to have to fend off two companies. One is bad enough. The council have a duty to ensure that only one company chase you.

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Thanks L.Bizzy that's extremely helpful. Yes they did confirm 2 companies, although I haven't heard from the second (Equita). I'll try to make it clear the accounts I had:

Property A - council tax 2011/12 - small balance
Property B - council tax 2011/12 and 2012/13 - large balance, two liability orders, one for 2011/12 and one for 2012/13
Property C - council tax 2013/14 - medium balance
Property D - council tax 2014/15 - small balance - liability order 9 April 2015

In April I moved into property E!

When I made the payments in April, I cleared the balance on property A. I cleared the balance on property D, apart from the liability order costs of £42 (liability order granted the day before I made payments, so wasn't showing on the balance). As part of the repayment plan, I made a small payment to property B to 'catch up'. The plan was to pay £100 on property B's balance then when that is paid off start paying the balance on property C.

Jacobs are dealing with property B 2011/12 and property D. I've been told Equita are dealing with property B 2012/13.

Incidentally, I mentioned a couple of letters I received from Jacobs during April that the council have confirmed were sent in error - these were for property B 2011/12 and property B 2012/13!!

Again, any thoughts would be much appreciated - my head hurts!!

[Guest]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

You are entitled to designate which account your payment is offset against.

I would guess that you told the council at the time you made this payment, which account was to be allocated what? However, you did so in the belief that you were still dealing with the council on this. Clearly you weren't, as every account has now gone to enforcement.

In your complaint, you should raise this issue. As the council failed to inform you at the time that you made payment (that the accounts were going over to bailiffs for collection), you allocated the money as per the previous agreement with the council. Had you known that the council intended to pass your accounts over to enforcement, you would have allocated the money differently. Armed with this knowledge, you now require £42 of the money allocated to account B to go to account D instead.

This will mean you have cleared 2 of the accounts. It will also mean that there will be no £75 compliance fee added to the account.

The accounts are still confusing me though as there are 5 accounts, not 4?

As I read it, if your complaint is accepted (which it should be), Accounts A & D will be cleared. Two accounts at property B and account C will remain in the hands of bailiffs. I presume that Jacobs are dealing with property C? Equita will be removed from the equation, leaving you left to deal with Jacobs for all 3 accounts. You can arrange a payment plan with Jacobs, advise that you lose time from work due to health problems and ask that this be placed on record. Follow this up with a letter confirming what you have said and send the council a copy. Any time that you lose time from work, you must inform Jacobs immediately-If they give you any trouble, you complain to the council. As long as you pay ON TIME or contact them to explain why, you should have no further issues. If you do neither, they WILL visit and you will be charged a further £235. If you have a car outside, this would be in danger of being clamped. I cannot stress how important it is to keep on top of this from now on-There will be no second chances-They will simply visit you without forewarning you.

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Hi L.Bizzy, yes I used an online system and had to put the reference numbers in for which account the payment was to go to - this was based on a phone call I had with the council during March. I had already sent the complaint in when I read your message, I mentioned this point but I didn't put it as clearly as you have - if we get into any correspondence, rather than a just a final response from the council, I'll raise it more clearly.

Apologies, I didn't mention property E in the original post as I have only recently moved into it and don't have any council tax issues relating to it.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

I've has major debts problems the past several years

Have these other debts been cleared? If not how large are they at the moment and how much are you paying to them each month?

This may sound irrelevant, but like L.Bizzy I am not convinced you will have a complaint upheld so it's good to look at your other options, hence the above questions.

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Around £14,500, including the council tax. One CCJ. Total repayments at the moment around £375 which doesn't cover all the account (if I made repayment plans with the others would be around £450 per month total).

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Spoke to someone from the council this morning and provided them with some evidence of vulnerability. Have made a further repayment offer. Will see what happens but sure think they are going to get back to me next week.

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Sorted. Happy with the way the council dealt with it.

Accounts back with the council.
Enforcement charges removed.
Repayment plan in place (lower amount than the £77 offered and rejected in January).

[Kati]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Well done xx

[Debt Camel]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Excellent.

But it's worth asking if you can actually afford the monthly repayments you are currently making?

[council_woes]

Re: Council Tax / Jacobs / Vulnerable

Hi DC, yes it should be affordable at the lower level. I also managed to get the arrears reduced as for the biggest debt the single person discount was never applied correctly, but it has been now :-)