Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Correct Andy58. I would just point to post 55 for anyone who is having difficulties understanding things as they are. At the end of the day, if people feel they have been hard done by, or are being hard done by, they have the right to complain.

You reiterate also a point which has been made several times already - things are working far better and things are more transparent than previously. That is a big step forward.

I've heard this quote of 'things are working better' a few times. Who says they are working better? From what I see, bailiffs are causing as many problems with illegal threats as before. The new tactic seems to be to say that the compliance letter has been sent yet the debtor has never received one, thus allowing the bailiff to make a visit.

That's not to mention the post dated letters.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Funny, been dealing with bailiffs for a long time, to me it will always be levying distress and bailiffs.

If you employ someone to collect money on your behalf, then really there would be no point in legislation which prevents that money being paid directly to you, it would defeat the object.

As for the fees, if you actually read the regulations, you will see that the fees form part and parcel of the "amount outstanding" they are the same debt from the moment they become due, so it is not a matter of apportionment, if some of the total is due then the bailiff will seek to collect it. It really is a very simple process.
Incidentally I am reliably informed that despite being bombarded with ridiculous template letters ,the new system is on the whole working very well for all concerned.
I must admit that this comes as something of a surprise to me, but people generally are interacting with the bailiffs and the creditors at an earlier stage and preventing added costs, due to the new regulations and the more transparent fee system, i just wish that people like you would not continue to complicate matters with these ridiculous ideas that really do no good to anyone.

To repeat, no-one is disputing that the fees are due - the bailiff is entitled to make his charges. However, there is no legislative process in place that allows the LA to pass on these fees from any payments they receive directly from the debtor. The LA can only collect what it is owed.

The fees will then remain outstanding, and the bailiff needs to pursue the debtor for these fees. However, as the liability order was for a set sum (you can't issue a liability order for an unknown sum), the LO cannot be used to enforce for fees only. If the LO included the fees, they would still be due even if the debt was returned to the council.

As they are not (the fees 'die' if it is returned) it is clear the fees are not part of the sum quoted on the LO.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Correct Andy58. I would just point to post 55 for anyone who is having difficulties understanding things as they are. At the end of the day, if people feel they have been hard done by, or are being hard done by, they have the right to complain.

You reiterate also a point which has been made several times already - things are working far better and things are more transparent than previously. That is a big step forward.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

No, what I said was the LA have no right to collect the bailiff's fees. They have a total right to collect any money owed to them, and them alone. They should not be collecting money owed to a third party.

And, don't make yourself sound foolish - "only a bailiff can levy distress"... this is now termed 'taking control'. So you have in fact agreed with me.

Funny, been dealing with bailiffs for a long time, to me it will always be levying distress and bailiffs.

If you employ someone to collect money on your behalf, then really there would be no point in legislation which prevents that money being paid directly to you, it would defeat the object.

As for the fees, if you actually read the regulations, you will see that the fees form part and parcel of the "amount outstanding" they are the same debt from the moment they become due, so it is not a matter of apportionment, if some of the total is due then the bailiff will seek to collect it. It really is a very simple process.
Incidentally I am reliably informed that despite being bombarded with ridiculous template letters ,the new system is on the whole working very well for all concerned.
I must admit that this comes as something of a surprise to me, but people generally are interacting with the bailiffs and the creditors at an earlier stage and preventing added costs, due to the new regulations and the more transparent fee system, i just wish that people like you would not continue to complicate matters with these ridiculous ideas that really do no good to anyone.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

This is why I keep referring to 'the enforcement process'. It may not cover word for word every bit of legislation, but it certainly covers the government's intent, the intent of the MoJ and the way it is generally working in practice. There is nothing at all stopping the council accepting a payment as part of the enforcement process towards the debt outstanding. I posted an example of how this might work in I think it was post 28 yesterday.

Intent does not make it law. Despite any intentions, consultations, beliefs and so forth, unless the legislation states the position, intent means nothing. If the legislation is not what was intended, the Government can make a SI.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

NO only a bailiff can levy distress, this may be where you are getting confused, the bailiff is working on the behalf of the authority(or creditor), he collects money on his behalf, if the creditor has been paid then as said job done.

Really you are arguing against your own point here, if you were right in what you say, the authority should not be able to take payments at all, and therefore should according to your logic ass all monies receive back to the bailiff including his fees.

No, what I said was the LA have no right to collect the bailiff's fees. They have a total right to collect any money owed to them, and them alone. They should not be collecting money owed to a third party.

And, don't make yourself sound foolish - "only a bailiff can levy distress"... this is now termed 'taking control'. So you have in fact agreed with me.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

It is stated many times in legislation that only a bailiff can take control of goods (either money or possessions). Legislation also says a bailiff can only be paid from proceeds collected from this control. Therefore a bailiff is the only one who can collect his fee - he cannot expected anyone else to collect it for him.

This is why I keep referring to 'the enforcement process'. It may not cover word for word every bit of legislation, but it certainly covers the government's intent, the intent of the MoJ and the way it is generally working in practice. There is nothing at all stopping the council accepting a payment as part of the enforcement process towards the debt outstanding. I posted an example of how this might work in I think it was post 28 yesterday.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

It is stated many times in legislation that only a bailiff can take control of goods (either money or possessions). Legislation also says a bailiff can only be paid from proceeds collected from this control. Therefore a bailiff is the only one who can collect his fee - he cannot expected anyone else to collect it for him.

NO only a bailiff can levy distress, this may be where you are getting confused, the bailiff is working on the behalf of the authority(or creditor), he collects money on his behalf, if the creditor has been paid then as said job done.

Really you are arguing against your own point here, if you were right in what you say, the authority should not be able to take payments at all, and therefore should according to your logic ass all monies receive back to the bailiff including his fees.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

(2)In this Schedule a power to use the procedure to recover a particular sum is called an “enforcement power

Notice it says "to use the procedure", the procedure is in the regulations, the first is the compliance stage once this is commenced the fee is due,

Again there is nothing to say that the bailiff must personally collect any fee, just that he is authorized to collect on behalf of the authority, if the authority is paid directly, it is job done, unless there is an amount outstanding then the bailiff will pursue the balance on here behalf, as is his job, and as he is legally entitled to do.

This is really all common sense , the legislator have gone to the trouble to enshrine it in legislation partially because of people trying to circumvent the law and crate loopholes, it is very precise, if the bailiff was the only one entitled to collect proceeds the act would say so in no uncertain terms. In any event this is the way it works in practice so as also said there is no point saying otherwise.

It is stated many times in legislation that only a bailiff can take control of goods (either money or possessions). Legislation also says a bailiff can only be paid from proceeds collected from this control. Therefore a bailiff is the only one who can collect his fee - he cannot expected anyone else to collect it for him.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Where? Only a bailiff can exercise the power so only a bailiff can collect the fee. The local authority has no right to collect the fee.

Please, please show me exactly where it states in any legislation that a local authority is legally obliged to pass deduct and pass on any fees to the bailiff if they have been paid direct.

(2)In this Schedule a power to use the procedure to recover a particular sum is called an “enforcement power

Notice it says "to use the procedure", the procedure is in the regulations, the first is the compliance stage once this is commenced the fee is due,

Again there is nothing to say that the bailiff must personally collect any fee, just that he is authorized to collect on behalf of the authority, if the authority is paid directly, it is job done, unless there is an amount outstanding then the bailiff will pursue the balance on here behalf, as is his job, and as he is legally entitled to do.

This is really all common sense , the legislator have gone to the trouble to enshrine it in legislation partially because of people trying to circumvent the law and crate loopholes, it is very precise, if the bailiff was the only one entitled to collect proceeds the act would say so in no uncertain terms. In any event this is the way it works in practice so as also said there is no point saying otherwise.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

Yes i know, my only concern is for people who come on here and elsewhere for advice and end up being wrongly led and a bad situation made immeasurably worse.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

... once this is commenced any payment made to anyone will be a payment due to the enforcement, this is in the regulations.

Where? Only a bailiff can exercise the power so only a bailiff can collect the fee. The local authority has no right to collect the fee.

Please, please show me exactly where it states in any legislation that a local authority is legally obliged to pass deduct and pass on any fees to the bailiff if they have been paid direct.

[bizzybob]

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

What's this?

O
It's a circle - one of those things we're going round in here.

:amen:

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

What's this?

O
It's a circle - one of those things we're going round in here.

Re: Bailiff £75 Compliance fee, do I have to pay it?

So you agree that paying the creditor direct cannot be classed as proceeds? At last.

Banging ones head against a brick wall, the powers mentioned refer to the enforcement stages of the regulations the first one being the compliance stage, once this is commenced any payment made to anyone will be a payment due to the enforcement, this is in the regulations.