I need advice re Rundles

[normality]

I am arguing over fees with this company. I had a liablity order form a council which i paid on a telphone payment line it staed my balance was 00. i later received a letter from Rundles stating that they were collecting the liablity order plus 75 fee compliance stage of 2014 fees section of taking control of goods act

i wrote and advised that the balance was paid they investigated and a few twists and turns aside have come back to tell me that they are giving me a week to pay said £75 before they attend and charge me £235 for the next stage of the enforcement process


i thought that the fees were lost if the balance was paid but in this case i did not even know about the fees when i paid

[bluebottle]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

What was the time lapse between the local authority telling you they had obtained a Liability Order and Rundles contacting you?

[normality]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

It was 9 months. I attended the court for the hearing and the magistrates were very reluctant to grant the order they were eventually told they must by their clerk and refused to give the council any costs. I paid as a consequence of receiving my reminder for this years ctax at a different address and received a letter from rundles (not dated) if it makes any difference a day or so later.

[bluebottle]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

It was 9 months. I attended the court for the hearing and the magistrates were very reluctant to grant the order they were eventually told they must by their clerk and refused to give the council any costs. I paid as a consequence of receiving my reminder for this years ctax at a different address and received a letter from rundles (not dated) if it makes any difference a day or so later.

The magistrates were right to be reluctant to grant the order and the clerk was wrong to tell them they had to grant the order because the decision to grant the order rests with the magistrates, not the clerk, who has no judicial power, except under exceptional circumstances. What is happening is that the local authorities are effectively running Council Tax Liability Order hearings so they are guaranteed the granting of a Liability Order. I am very surprised the magistrates did not tell the clerk to shut up and go with their instincts.

Could you confirm when the previous year's CT was paid and to what Rundles' letter refers, last year's or this year's CT?

[normality]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

The Clerk told them that they were not in a position to deny the request for an order unless there was no council tax owed. the hearing was about a void period in a house i rent out where the council advised me in writing that i was getting a 50% discount then altered it to 10% without telling me only advising me when the account was transferred into the new tenants name. i wrote to the council and advised them of the circumstances and they refused to negotiate and applied for a liability order. the magistrates were very sympathetic as i had offered to pay the 50% i thought i owed but did reluctantly on the advice of their clerk grant the order without costs. the rundles letter only refers to this amount granted by the magistrates no other amounts which i believe are all up to date and by the time i received the undated rundles letter i had paid the account. in email exchanges the council confirm that i owe them nothing but say i owe the bailiffs fees directly to rundles. can they actuall progress to the next stage and charge me 235 for knocking on my door? is there a body like the OFT i can complain about them to? i accept that at the year end the council may have reveiwed their cases Rundles say they received the file on the 10th April I paid on the 14th and received rundles letter on the 16th when i paid the councils system confirmed my balance at 00

[bluebottle]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

The Clerk told them that they were not in a position to deny the request for an order unless there was no council tax owed. the hearing was about a void period in a house i rent out where the council advised me in writing that i was getting a 50% discount then altered it to 10% without telling me only advising me when the account was transferred into the new tenants name. i wrote to the council and advised them of the circumstances and they refused to negotiate and applied for a liability order. the magistrates were very sympathetic as i had offered to pay the 50% i thought i owed but did reluctantly on the advice of their clerk grant the order without costs. the rundles letter only refers to this amount granted by the magistrates no other amounts which i believe are all up to date and by the time i received the undated rundles letter i had paid the account. in email exchanges the council confirm that i owe them nothing but say i owe the bailiffs fees directly to rundles. can they actuall progress to the next stage and charge me 235 for knocking on my door? is there a body like the OFT i can complain about them to? i accept that at the year end the council may have reveiwed their cases Rundles say they received the file on the 10th April I paid on the 14th and received rundles letter on the 16th when i paid the councils system confirmed my balance at 00

Thank you. I have looked through the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and find that, on balance of probability, the local authority in your case has broken the law (Regulations 34 and 45). It is unlawful for a local authority to refuse to accept payments and once payment has been received, distress may not be proceeded with. The local authority in your case had a duty to inform Rundles they had received payment and not to proceed. Contact the local authority, ask to speak to the Head of Revenues and ask them when the local authority informed Rundles they had received your payment. If Rundles have been told, their demands may be unlawful.

I am attaching an electronic copy of the Statutory Instrument referred to above for your information.

[ploddertom]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

The Compliance Fee is due when the Enforcement Co receive instructions from their Client. Be worth asking the Council when they did send it as some Enforcement Co's have been stockpiling documents waiting for the new Regulations to kick in.

[bluebottle]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

The Compliance Fee is due when the Enforcement Co receive instructions from their Client. Be worth asking the Council when they did send it as some Enforcement Co's have been stockpiling documents waiting for the new Regulations to kick in.

It will be interesting to see if this backfires on those civil enforcement companies engaging in the practice you mention, PT.

[ploddertom]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

It will be interesting to see if this backfires on those civil enforcement companies engaging in the practice you mention, PT.

I think we have already seen some who have abandoned their previous levy in order to be able to charge the Enforcement Fee of £235 as this benefits them more.

[bluebottle]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

I would have thought that is a case of two bites at the cherry. I would question the lawfulness of obtaining a levy prior to 6/4/14, abandoning it, then coming back and trying to enrich themselves by levying again, but at the post-6/4/14 rates. It will be interesting to see if a judge rules such a practice as unjustifiable enrichment. Then again, it would be interesting to see if a judge turns round and denies a civil enforcement company any fees at all for engaging in such a practice.

[bizzybob]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

I think we have already seen some who have abandoned their previous levy in order to be able to charge the Enforcement Fee of £235 as this benefits them more.

They will do this where a levy was challenged or dodgy on a random car imho

[bizzybob]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

I would have thought that is a case of two bites at the cherry. I would question the lawfulness of obtaining a levy prior to 6/4/14, abandoning it, then coming back and trying to enrich themselves by levying again, but at the post-6/4/14 rates. It will be interesting to see if a judge rules such a practice as unjustifiable enrichment. Then again, it would be interesting to see if a judge turns round and denies a civil enforcement company any fees at all for engaging in such a practice.

That is a definite possibility if the |EA is taking the pi$$ where they levied a random car before 6th April, were challenged, then abandoned it and applied the new fees.

[ploddertom]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

If they are chasing for a pre April 6 account and have a levy they must follow through solely on the old rules - 1st/2nd Visit @ £42-50 max, Levy Fee at say £65.

Take the levy fee away & work on the new rules then we get Compliance Fee £42-50 max, Enforcement Fee £235, Sale fee £110 + storage fees at £20 per day.

[normality]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

They don't have a levy they have only ever written me one letter which was received after the liability order was paid. I am worried they will attend and try to charge 235

[ploddertom]

Re: I need advice re Rundles

They don't have a levy they have only ever written me one letter which was received after the liability order was paid. I am worried they will attend and try to charge 235

Sorry we got a bit sidetracked explaining what some have done since April 6. At present it appears that you may owe the Compliance Fee but you must find out from the Council when they passed it over for enforcement.