Some Advice Please (Marstons)

[Docherty89]

Hello all, I have been having some issues with Marstons Ill start at the beginning;

I was arrested and fined for drink driving 3 years ago, I began to pay the fine but defaulted on the arrangement as i lost my job because of the offense, when i had my means test done in court i obviously had much more income thand i did after i was sacked.

I was summoned to court and they asked me to begin paying again a smaller amount but still £30 a week. I defaulted on this again after a while but not by choice I have been unemployed and looking for work with a few short temporary jobs during the 3 years but nothing concrete, I have been on benefits for about 6/7 months now and I also have 3 children under 7.

I received a letter the other day from Martsons stating that i owed £448 with a £85.00 Fee Total £533.00. I phoned them straight away to arrange a payment plan the lady on the phone refused any kind of plan and stated the amount must be paid in full.

While i was away a bailiff knocked and my partner answered the door, she explained I was away training for a new job, The bailiff then said that if i do not pay in full within 5 days i would go to jail, he also added a fee of £215 for the privilege. He also refused any kind of payment. (I read on here they do this because they do not get paid until the full amount is recovered.)

I have tried to phone the court but they are busy and now closed till Monday all i want to do is pay but i cannot afford to pay in full and i also cannot afford to go to jail and lose another job because of this debt. The initial debt was over £800 i did pay if for as long as i could but as i said i just could not afford the repayments and buried my head in the sand.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Someone with more knowledge of HMCTS will be along presently.

Until then, try to relax a little. Bailiffs tell lies as habitually and as often as they breathe; there is no way that the bailiff has the power to gaol you if you do not pay him within five days. Nor may they lawfully seize any of your children to sell overseas as sex slaves. :grin:

[bluebottle]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Thank you for alerting me to this, Cloggy.

Docherty,

There has been a similar case to your own on the LB forums recently. If your circumstances change, you are required to inform the court of this and the court, if they deign to comply with correct procedures, should call you in for a Means Hearing when you inform them, especially if your income has decreased. This was confirmed by the High Court in the Judicial Review of R -v- South Western Magistrates (on the application of Purnell). If the court is aware you are on benefits, the question that arises is "What are Marstons doing involved in this matter?"

As regard the bailiff's threat of you going to jail, the courts will only do this if you are actively avoiding paying a fine, not finding it difficult to pay a fine. As Cloggy has said, a bailiff has as much power as next-door's cat to sent you to jail -In other words, bugger-all - and using this as a means of leverage is unethical, in the least, and coming very close to misrepresentation. Marstons' refusal to allow you to pay in affordable installments is unacceptable and HMCTS take a dim view of such behaviour.

Ring the court first thing Monday morning. If they decide to be Bad-Ass Bears, if you provide the name of the court and the name of your local police force, contact details for the HMCTS Area Enforcement Team, which is at a higher level than the court staff, can be provided.

[Docherty89]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Thank you both, i did think that the bailiff was trying to intimidate me.

You said if the courts are aware I am on benefits.
On the second hearing they did say some of the payments would come directly from my job seekers when i was claiming, I stopped claiming when i worked for 6 months but it was only part time 15.25 hours a week. I did not tell the court directly, I notified the council and the job center.

So perhaps the amount taken from the job seekers stopped and that's why they gave it to Marstons?

[bluebottle]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Before the court can involve bailiffs, the law makes the court jump through a number of hoops. They must first send you a reminder, then a document called a Further Steps Notice. If the FSN has not been sent and the court issues a distress warrant, any enforcement action is unlawful.

When you stopped claiming JSA, you had an obligation to inform the court as they would have to re-examine your means and adjust your fine payments accordingly. This is one of the elements of the Purnell case.

You certainly need to speak to the court. If they will not play ball, then the matter will need escalating as your circumstances indicate you are currently unemployed. This may indicate vulnerability and put the matter in a different light.

[Docherty89]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

I am currently unemployed but have a job interview next week. Also the reason i began to worry about the 5 day issue.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Hi Docherty, and welcome to the forum.

If you are currently unemployed and have a signing on book then you fall straight away in the vulnerable category, and the bailiff should withdraw and report back to the Court that the warrant is unforceable because there is nothing to be had ....... although, in some cases, there could be sufficient goods owned by you, say a fairly new car, a home cinema system or even an expensive watch, that the bailiff could confiscate and sell at auction to pay for the fine.

As far as the bailiff wanting to be paid in full ASAP it's not so much to do with their income (some bailiffs are paid a salary) but because there are strict time limits that they have to adhere to for recovering the fine and their costs, normally 12 months, but in some cases is 6 and a few 3, depending on the contract with that specific HMCTS area.

The bailiff can enter in a payment arrangement within those parameters, in your case now you owe £748.00, if I were to enforce I would not accept anything less than £75 per month, but also looking at a deposit of at least £200.00

But then again ..... it all depends on the individual bailiff, some of them think that the only authority higher than them is the Queen, and these are the one that spoil it for the majority.

In any one year there are more 2 billion pounds owed in unpaid fines, more than 10 million Distress Warrant issued and only a few thousand are giving debtors serious concern on how they are enforced.

[Inca]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Hiya,,the only thing I have to say is once this immediate issue is dealt with to your satisfaction and a payment plan with whoever is set up you MUST try really hard to adhere to it.
Don't let anyone push you into agreeing a weekly/monthly sum that you know in your heart of hearts you won't be able to maintain and keep the court or whoever informed of any change in your circumstances,,if they don't know they can't help you.

Just my opinion of course.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[bluebottle]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Hi Docherty, and welcome to the forum.

If you are currently unemployed and have a signing on book then you fall straight away in the vulnerable category, and the bailiff should withdraw and report back to the Court that the warrant is unforceable because there is nothing to be had ....... although, in some cases, there could be sufficient goods owned by you, say a fairly new car, a home cinema system or even an expensive watch, that the bailiff could confiscate and sell at auction to pay for the fine.

As far as the bailiff wanting to be paid in full ASAP it's not so much to do with their income (some bailiffs are paid a salary) but because there are strict time limits that they have to adhere to for recovering the fine and their costs, normally 12 months, but in some cases is 6 and a few 3, depending on the contract with that specific HMCTS area.

The bailiff can enter in a payment arrangement within those parameters, in your case now you owe £748.00, if I were to enforce I would not accept anything less than £75 per month, but also looking at a deposit of at least £200.00

But then again ..... it all depends on the individual bailiff, some of them think that the only authority higher than them is the Queen, and these are the one that spoil it for the majority.

In any one year there are more 2 billion pounds owed in unpaid fines, more than 10 million Distress Warrant issued and only a few thousand are giving debtors serious concern on how they are enforced.

Notwithstanding, there are Richard Heads within the civil enforcement industry, under contract to HMCTS, who go out of their way to make it as difficult as possible for defendants to pay off fines and then claim to HMCTS the defendant is avoiding paying the fine. Marstons are known offenders for this practice, but Collectica are, by far, the worst offenders. In one case that came onto the LB forums last year, one of the HMCTS Area Enforcement Teams had to intervene due to Collectica. I cannot praise the HMCTS Area Enforcement Team involved enough for their help. They were brilliant.

I have to agree that is it is the usual case of a rogue element making the job of those who do their best to follow the rules more difficult.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

While i was away a bailiff knocked and my partner answered the door, she explained I was away training for a new job, The bailiff then said that if i do not pay in full within 5 days i would go to jail, he also added a fee of £215 for the privilege. He also refused any kind of payment.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

After re-reading your original post I noticed the above.

Unless the bailiff had written permission from you to divulge any information to your partner he has Broken the Data Protection Act in a BIG way.

Worth writing a letter of complaint to Marston about it, and copy the Court as well as, and without fear of repeating myself, all corerespondence should be sent Recorded Delivery.

The muppet visiting your property and spouting non existing threats should lose his Certificate.

The National Standards for Enforcement agents, to which Marston undersigns, are very clear:



Enforcement agents must act within the law at all times, including all defined legislation and observe all health and safety requirements in carrying out enforcement. They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate the Freedom of Information Act.


Enforcement agents must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities, including, but not restricted to;


Falsely implying or stating that action can or will, be taken when legally it cannot be taken


Falsely implying or stating that a particular course of action will ensue before it is possible to know whether such action would be permissible


Falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not

Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor.

[wales01man]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Very well stating some of the rules for Enforcement Officers but as we read so many times some of them break the rules yet we never hear of them losing their certificates or any action against the Companies or those Councils/Companies that are supposedly in control of them.
The rules are to some bailiffs a JOKE

[bizzybob]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Very well stating some of the rules for Enforcement Officers but as we read so many times some of them break the rules yet we never hear of them losing their certificates or any action against the Companies or those Councils/Companies that are supposedly in control of them.
The rules are to some bailiffs a JOKE

If you send in a Form 4 these days it is perverted by bailiff companies into pseudo adversarial litigation, and the judge then deals with it as a court case rather than a hearing into a bailiffs fitness, and the aggrieved debtor finds that they, not the bailiff appear to be on trial; bailiffs send barristers to the trial complainant gets 10k worth of costs awarded in favour of the bailiff, all very Kafkaesque

Reason given is that a mild case of cheating or fraud isn't sufficient these days to "rob" a bailiffs certificate from them and put them on JSA and potentially at the mercy of their ex colleagues when as a result they then cannot pay their bills.

This makes me extremely MAD Mad Mad, :mad2::mad2::mad2:

[wales01man]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Its all one sided a formal complaint against the Council/Company contracting them may be better are there processes in place that can be used?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

Its all one sided a formal complaint against the Council/Company contracting them may be better are there processes in place that can be used?

There is nothing that would be effective.

[bizzybob]

Re: Some Advice Please (Marstons)

There is nothing that would be effective.

Unless they cross Anjem Chodary or another mad mullah and he places a Fatwah on Marstons as being anti Sharia and unislamic, and they hold a mass protest outside Marston's HQ.