marston nightmare

[howz your luck]

i'm just wondering if anyone could help me i had a magistrate fine of £240 i did phone and tell them i could not afford this and was told to pay 40 per month which i was willing to pay but with everything that was going on at the time of payment id forgotten hence why now i have marston on my back i did call them to rearrange a payment plan but they wasn't intrested and i had to pay £97 by the following friday to which i could not pay but manage to get the money together by the following tuesday now they want the rest of the money by tomorrow or they are sending the baliffs out does anyone know if there is a way that i can pay it off without them coming out ???



thanks for your help

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

i'm just wondering if anyone could help me i had a magistrate fine of £240 i did phone and tell them i could not afford this and was told to pay 40 per month which i was willing to pay but with everything that was going on at the time of payment id forgotten hence why now i have marston on my back i did call them to rearrange a payment plan but they wasn't intrested and i had to pay £97 by the following friday to which i could not pay but manage to get the money together by the following tuesday now they want the rest of the money by tomorrow or they are sending the baliffs out does anyone know if there is a way that i can pay it off without them coming out ???
thanks for your help

Okay. The first thing you need to do is stay calm. There are a few questions to answer -

1. Were you in court when the fine was imposed?
2. Were your means examined by the court?
3. Did you complete a Means Form issued by the court?
4. Who told you to pay £40?
5. Have you circumstances changed since the fine was imposed, meaning, has your income decreased?
6. Are you on Social Security benefits?
7. Did you receive a Further Steps Notice from the court that imposed the fine?
8. Were Marstons aware of your financial circumstances?

If you could answer these questions, it will be easier to offer you advice.

[howz your luck]

Re: marston nightmare

hello
yes i was in court when the fine was imposed and my means were examined the mag even said she did not want to impose a fine but she had to the courts fine office told me i had to pay £40 my circumstances have not changed i do get benefit working tax credits and child tax credits i only received a letter from marston none from the court i did inform marston of my financial circumstances but as soon as i said i was on working tax credits and child tax credit she said well with the information id given her i had to pay £97 by the following week even tho id explaned that i wouldn't be able to pay

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

hello
yes i was in court when the fine was imposed and my means were examined the mag even said she did not want to impose a fine but she had to the courts fine office told me i had to pay £40 my circumstances have not changed i do get benefit working tax credits and child tax credits i only received a letter from marston none from the court i did inform marston of my financial circumstances but as soon as i said i was on working tax credits and child tax credit she said well with the information id given her i had to pay £97 by the following week even tho id explaned that i wouldn't be able to pay

Something is not right here.

You say the magistrate did not want to impose a fine, but claimed they had to do so. What offence were you in court for, please? Also, was the magistrate sitting alone or with one or two other magistrates?

Which magistrates court is involved, please? To the best of my knowledge and belief, the fine payments are set at the hearing and you are informed before you leave the courtroom. There is no way the Fines Office should be dictating how much you should pay. They have no lawful authority to do so. That is for the District Judge or Justices of the Peace to determine.

Ring the court and find out when the Further Steps Notice was sent. Also, if Marstons are trying to make you pay sums you cannot realistically afford, this needs to be escalated to a higher level within the Courts and Tribunals Service.

[howz your luck]

Re: marston nightmare

no the magistrate did not want to impose a fine because of my finances but because it was the 2nd time id been to court for non attendance for my daughter she had to. there were 3 magistrates in court i was in guildford court and because their fine office has been closed down i had to call the fines office to make payment to arrange a payment plan ... i will ring the courts first thing monday morning and ask the questions you have asked

thanks again

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

no the magistrate did not want to impose a fine because of my finances but because it was the 2nd time id been to court for non attendance for my daughter she had to. there were 3 magistrates in court i was in guildford court and because their fine office has been closed down i had to call the fines office to make payment to arrange a payment plan ... i will ring the courts first thing monday morning and ask the questions you have asked

thanks again

What legislation did the Local Education Authority (LEA) proceed under? I have never heard such claptrap. Unless a penalty is fixed by law, the court is at liberty to impose the punishment it sees fit, given the circumstances and in accordance with Sentencing Guidelines and the law. Towards the end of the hearing, there would have been a part where your means were examined. This part of the hearing is known as Antecedents. This is when your financial circumstances are made known to the court and they then determine what penalty to impose and, if a fine is imposed, how much and at what rate and over what period of time.

I have to ask the following questions -

1. Did the Justices sitting at Guildford Magistrates Courts tell you to pay the fine at so much per week/fortnight/month towards the end of the hearing?
2. If they did, please give details.

I am somewhat puzzled by your statement as to the Fines Office at Guildford setting the rate of payment of the fine when this is the responsibility of the court. This may need chasing up with HMCTS at senior level. Are you a single parent by any chance?

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: marston nightmare

no the magistrate did not want to impose a fine because of my finances but because it was the 2nd time id been to court for non attendance for my daughter she had to. there were 3 magistrates in court i was in guildford court and because their fine office has been closed down i had to call the fines office to make payment to arrange a payment plan ... i will ring the courts first thing monday morning and ask the questions you have asked

thanks again

puzzling!

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

puzzling!

I couldn't agree with you more, Sir Vere. Something has gone badly wrongly in this case, albeit that the OP missed payments before Marstons got involved. However, given the circumstances and the behaviour of Marston bailiffs lately, particularly misrepresentation of their powers and the law, HMCTS might be wise to call them off in the OP's case until they have sorted out what has happened, at court level, and adjusted matters accordingly.

[CleverClogs]

Re: marston nightmare

I have never heard such claptrap. Unless a penalty is fixed by law, the court is at liberty to impose the punishment it sees fit, given the circumstances and in accordance with Sentencing Guidelines and the law.

Indeed - a binding over order would surely have been more appropriate.

[bizzybob]

Re: marston nightmare

Indeed - a binding over order would surely have been more appropriate.

Perhaps that was what they meant but either they or the court clerk decided that they MUST impose a fine.

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

Perhaps that was what they meant but either they or the court clerk decided that they MUST impose a fine.

A Justices Clerk is there to advise. They must not unduly influence the decision of Justices of the Peace or attempt to take over the conduct of proceedings. For them to do so is contrary to the law and breaches a defendant's right to a fair hearing under Article 6, European Convention on Human Right, enshrined in the Human Rights Act 1998. A public authority that breaches a person's Convention rights is acting unlawfully. In the case of a court hearing, it may have the effect of rendering the proceedings invalid, along with any judgement, resulting in grounds for an appeal. Our rights under ECHR are enforced through the civil courts.

The OP needs to find out which legislation the proceedings took place under and if there is any provision compelling a fine to be imposed. If there is no such provision, it is possible the Justices and, possibly, the Justice's Clerk, also, acted unlawfully. Telling the defendant you have to impose a fine is not a good idea because of the availability of legislation and case law.

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

Indeed - a binding over order would surely have been more appropriate.

Binding-Over Orders apply to Common Law Breach of the Peace, Cloggy. In the OP's case, unless there is a statutory provision compelling the imposition of a fine, the court has the option of imposing an Absolute or a Conditional Discharge.

[howz your luck]

Re: marston nightmare

i feel im confusing everyone here i am sorry ... let me start again

I was taken to court by Guildford county council for my daughters poor attendance.

When i was at the court there were 3 magistrates in front of me. At the end of the hearing the magistrate in the middle read my means form and because of our low household income did not want to impose a fine but under the circumstances had to.

I'd been to court before and been fined for same offence which I was very grateful for because I thought I was going prison.

I got the £240 fine.

There was no discussion on how much or how often to pay it. When I was leaving the court room I asked the lady that calls people into court (sorry don't know her legal name ) where the fine office was as i couldn't pay this in full. She was the one that told me to call the fines office with my case number and they will sort it out.

I was told by the fines office to pay £40 a month starting 23 Aug 2013.

By the time the 23rd came I had forgotten about the fine ( had a lot going on - I know no excuse ). On the 29th Oct I received a letter from Marston saying that I had to pay the £240 plus £85 for fees.

I have no idea what the "fees" are so I called them and they told me I had to pay £97 there and then.

I didn't have it and was asked would i have it by the following friday to which i said doubt it but ill try.

So i had the £97 by the next Tuesday which was the 3rd December. They told me to pay the rest in 4 weeks which i still don't have .....

So i was wondering is there anyway i could call them and ask for extra time i know. I have already had loads, but with it being Christmas, and most of my family's birthdays in January, I can now pay them £50 a week. This will leave me broke each week but im really worried about losing all my belongings ...

Im not a single parent.

Fingers crossed you can help


thank you

[bluebottle]

Re: marston nightmare

i feel im confusing everyone here i am sorry ... let me start again

I was taken to court by Guildford county council for my daughters poor attendance.

When i was at the court there were 3 magistrates in front of me. At the end of the hearing the magistrate in the middle read my means form and because of our low household income did not want to impose a fine but under the circumstances had to. The case was heard by Justices of the Peace (also known as Lay Judges). The one in the middle, if there are three sitting, is normally known as the Chairman or Chairwoman of the Bench. The stage at which they read your Means Form is known as Antecedents. Exactly who said a fine had to be imposed? Whether it was the JPs, the Clerk or a combination thereof, the matter needs checking, especially the applicable legislation, and if there is no statutory provision, the matter needs challenging. If there is no provision compelling a court to impose a fine, there is a possibility the court acted unlawfully or exceeded the limits of its statutory powers.

I'd been to court before and been fined for same offence which I was very grateful for because I thought I was going prison, We need to know the legislation you were fined under. This will provide an indication as to whether the court told porkies about having to impose a fine or whether they had the option of an alternative penalty, e.g. community service, conditional discharge.

I got the £240 fine.

There was no discussion on how much or how often to pay it. When I was leaving the court room I asked the lady that calls people into court (sorry don't know her legal name ) where the fine office was as i couldn't pay this in full. She was the one that told me to call the fines office with my case number and they will sort it out. The person who calls people into court is called the Court Usher. However, something has gone wrong here. The court should have set the amount to be paid and at what frequency. A Fines Officer can vary this if a defendant finds their financial circumstances change, following the imposition of the fine, but I do not think they can set the amounts and frequency instead of the court.

I was told by the fines office to pay £40 a month starting 23 Aug 2013. Fine payments are normally set so they are paid in full over a six-month period. So, in your case, £240 divided by 6 = £40 per month. If this was achievable, given your financial circumstances, fair enough, but if it was not, provision exists to vary the amounts and the timespan over which it is paid.

By the time the 23rd came I had forgotten about the fine ( had a lot going on - I know no excuse ). On the 29th Oct I received a letter from Marston saying that I had to pay the £240 plus £85 for fees.

I have no idea what the "fees" are so I called them and they told me I had to pay £97 there and then. The court had issued a Distress Warrant. You should have received a letter from the court before matters reached that stage called a Further Steps Notice. As long as you didn't move address between the court hearing and the letter from Marstons, you should have received it. It is a legal requirement to send out a Further Steps Notice before issuing a distress warrant, otherwise, any enforcement action is unlawful. The £85 is an Administration Fee.

I didn't have it and was asked would i have it by the following friday to which i said doubt it but ill try.

So i had the £97 by the next Tuesday which was the 3rd December. They told me to pay the rest in 4 weeks which i still don't have ..... It makes me wonder whether there are grounds to request a Means Hearing.

So i was wondering is there anyway i could call them and ask for extra time i know. I have already had loads, but with it being Christmas, and most of my family's birthdays in January, I can now pay them £50 a week. This will leave me broke each week but im really worried about losing all my belongings . Marstons can only make you pay what you can realistically afford. If they try to make you pay more then you can realistically afford, it could be said they are engineering a default to gain a financial advantage for themselves and garner fees.

Im not a single parent.

Fingers crossed you can help


thank you

If you can find out what legislation the offence you were summonsed for is, please, this would help a great deal. This will then provide an indication as to whether the court had the option to impose a non-financial penalty or whether it did, in fact, have its hands tied legally and was forced to impose a fine. If the former, you may need to complain to HMCTS in London. If the latter, there may be grounds for having the fine reduced, but this will need input from a legal professional. The National Pro Bono Centre (click the link at the bottom of Clever Clogs' posts) may be able to help you with legal advice, etc..

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: marston nightmare

If you can find out what legislation the offence you were summonsed for is, please, this would help a great deal. This will then provide an indication as to whether the court had the option to impose a non-financial penalty or whether it did, in fact, have its hands tied legally and was forced to impose a fine. If the former, you may need to complain to HMCTS in London. If the latter, there may be grounds for having the fine reduced, but this will need input from a legal professional. The National Pro Bono Centre (click the link at the bottom of Clever Clogs' posts) may be able to help you with legal advice, etc..

These are links to the legislation covering parents responsibilitier towards truancy:

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance...ool-attendance

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/chi...lty_notice.htm

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/fixedpena...hoolattendance

Seems clear that the issue has escalated to magistrates Court because an FPN was not paid/ignored