HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

[ploddertom]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

No, it has been loaned to me by a family member, although I am the registered keeper for insurance purposes

Does the family member have proof of purchase? If so a 3rd Party claim may be possible.

[ploddertom]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

It may seem as if things are against you and appears to be a no win situation particularly with regard to the car. Now we appear to see a better picture means there is a chance you can start to fight back and possibly retain the car.

They are correct that they have to go back to the Judgment Creditor to see if they will accept your proposals for payment. A reply must be forthcoming within 7 days. Of course if they accept then as long as payments are maintained then your car will remain with you. However one thing that may have not been explained is how much you will be paying off the debt and have to say it will be very little. Interest alone will be calclated at approx 55p per day, while they have what seems to be a valid levy over the car they may also be able to charge a Walking Possession Fee of 25p per day.

You can see that 80p per day in charges alone does not leave much left from your £25 per month, any remainder will quite possibly be split 60/40 between Creditor & HCEO - they are put towards the initial fees. It could be that you may only be paying 10p per month off the original debt or even in arrears. At those type of rates you will probably never pay it off. There is also a good chance the Creditor will turn down your payment proposal and you are then back to square one.

Instead you should look towards putting payments on a formal basis by going back to Court and applying for a Variation Order whereby the Court can set the level of payments. You do have to submit I&E to Court & Creditor - see Form N245 fee approx £40. You should also be aware that the Creditor can also apply to vary payments but if your situation is still the same then this would likely fail.

Of more pressing concern is the involvment of the HCEO. This can be dealt with by applying for a Stay of Execution which if granted halts all further HCEO enforcement & charges. This applied for on Form N244 - application cost approx £80. The grounds for applying this are:
i - you cannot afford the fees demanded
ii - although you accept you owe the debt you knew nothing of a CCJ until the HCEO turned up
iii - the HCEO has seized and is threatening to remove & sell a vehicle belonging to a family member who has loaned you the car in order to fulfill work at a remote location 240 miles away.

Apply for the Variation Order is simple & straightforward, that for the Stay is a bit more complicated but I do have a guide. If on a low wage or certain Benefits then you may apply to have the fees waived - see Forms EX160a & 160c for details. All Forms available through HMCTS website.

HTH

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Does the family member have proof of purchase? If so a 3rd Party claim may be possible.

I would have to ask, I have no idea.

How you get to other appointments is not their concern - harsh I know but that is how it looked upon. As you do not have sole use then it is not looked on as imperative - have a search for Toseland Building Supplies v Bishop which is the normal accepted case law. This concerned a builders dump truck & because there was AN Other allowed to drive it - albeit infrequently - it was not held to a tool of the trade and could therefore be seized and sold.

Having looked at the judgement given it is still not entirely clear. Judgement was upheld on the basis that the vehicle was used by other persons he employed to drive the the vehicle as part of his business, not for his sole and personal use during the course of his business, employment or vocation. The vehicle could therefore be viewed as a company asset and could therefore be siezed.
As my vehicle is for my sole and personal use during the course of my employment and my partner has use of the vehicle after my employment has finished for the day, I wonder what the guidance would be for exemption in this case.

[wales01man]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Sorry to say your trying to hard with regards the car and not hard enough in sorting the debt out take ploddertons advice and decide a course of action.
Its well documented that HCEOs and Bailiffs seize cars and then the Debtor has to fight to get it back.
We are all on your side in this but you have to take heed of the advice from plodderton and others who know.

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

It may seem as if things are against you and appears to be a no win situation particularly with regard to the car. Now we appear to see a better picture means there is a chance you can start to fight back and possibly retain the car.

They are correct that they have to go back to the Judgment Creditor to see if they will accept your proposals for payment. A reply must be forthcoming within 7 days. Of course if they accept then as long as payments are maintained then your car will remain with you. However one thing that may have not been explained is how much you will be paying off the debt and have to say it will be very little. Interest alone will be calclated at approx 55p per day, while they have what seems to be a valid levy over the car they may also be able to charge a Walking Possession Fee of 25p per day.

You can see that 80p per day in charges alone does not leave much left from your £25 per month, any remainder will quite possibly be split 60/40 between Creditor & HCEO - they are put towards the initial fees. It could be that you may only be paying 10p per month off the original debt or even in arrears. At those type of rates you will probably never pay it off. There is also a good chance the Creditor will turn down your payment proposal and you are then back to square one.

Instead you should look towards putting payments on a formal basis by going back to Court and applying for a Variation Order whereby the Court can set the level of payments. You do have to submit I&E to Court & Creditor - see Form N245 fee approx £40. You should also be aware that the Creditor can also apply to vary payments but if your situation is still the same then this would likely fail.

Of more pressing concern is the involvment of the HCEO. This can be dealt with by applying for a Stay of Execution which if granted halts all further HCEO enforcement & charges. This applied for on Form N244 - application cost approx £80. The grounds for applying this are:
i - you cannot afford the fees demanded
ii - although you accept you owe the debt you knew nothing of a CCJ until the HCEO turned up
iii - the HCEO has seized and is threatening to remove & sell a vehicle belonging to a family member who has loaned you the car in order to fulfill work at a remote location 240 miles away.

Apply for the Variation Order is simple & straightforward, that for the Stay is a bit more complicated but I do have a guide. If on a low wage or certain Benefits then you may apply to have the fees waived - see Forms EX160a & 160c for details. All Forms available through HMCTS website.

HTH

The fees are what are giving me sleepless nights, as I am well aware that my actual payment to my creditor would be tiny.
I want to apply for a stay of execution and try and get the CCJ set aside (based on the fact I didn't receive any notification or papers, having moved from the address they were sent to), what is stopping me is my complete ignorance on any of this and my likely hood off succeeding.

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Sorry to say your trying to hard with regards the car and not hard enough in sorting the debt out take ploddertons advice and decide a course of action.
Its well documented that HCEOs and Bailiffs seize cars and then the Debtor has to fight to get it back.
We are all on your side in this but you have to take heed of the advice from plodderton and others who know.

Thanks guys I'm really grateful, I just have no idea where or how to start with any of this, or my likely hood of succeeding

[wales01man]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Be patient someone on here will help

[CleverClogs]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

I want to ... try and get the CCJ set aside (based on the fact I didn't receive any notification or papers, having moved from the address they were sent to), what is stopping me is my complete ignorance on any of this and my likely hood off succeeding.

For the judgement to be set aside, you would not only have to shew why the claim - and presumably pre-action correspondence - did not reach you, you would need to shew a viable defence to the claim.

What manner of debt was the basis for the claim?

[ploddertom]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

The fees are what are giving me sleepless nights, as I am well aware that my actual payment to my creditor would be tiny.
I want to apply for a stay of execution and try and get the CCJ set aside (based on the fact I didn't receive any notification or papers, having moved from the address they were sent to), what is stopping me is my complete ignorance on any of this and my likely hood off succeeding.

To claim Set Aside you would need to show that you did not owe the money, had paid the debt or some other reason as to why the original Judgment was wrong. Purely when it went to an old address is a reason but as you owe the money then all that happens is you swap 1 CCJ for another - in other words the application will fail and you may be liable for the other sides costs if it went to a Hearing.

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

To claim Set Aside you would need to show that you did not owe the money, had paid the debt or some other reason as to why the original Judgment was wrong. Purely when it went to an old address is a reason but as you owe the money then all that happens is you swap 1 CCJ for another - in other words the application will fail and you may be liable for the other sides costs if it went to a Hearing.

Thanks plodder, would a stay of execution revoke the bailiffs fees already described or would I still have to pay them? I was hoping that if I had the CCJ set aside I might be able to negotiate a better settlement with the origional creditor.

[ploddertom]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

You still have fees to the date of a Stay being granted to pay but think yours are rather on the heavy side and should be challenged.

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Thanks ploddertom, on a slightly different tack, a search of the OFT's registry of companies shows that Sheriffs High Court Enforcement Limited had their Consumer Credit Licence revoked in 2011. Under the regulations of the Consumer Credit Act, companies engaged in the collection of debts regulated by the act are required to hold a valid consumer credit licence, including high court enforcement companies. would this be worth exploring further?

[bizzybob]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Was the debt for an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act?

[ploddertom]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

They don't require a CCL as they collect debts under a Court Order. On top of that HCEO's cannot enforce CCA debts anyway.

[DHCrewdog]

Re: HELP!! - HCEO Fee's 'The Sheriffs Office'

Was the debt for an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act?

Yes it was