HCEO fees and actions

[Burnybum]

Hi

This debt has been an ongoing situation for about 5 years, it's a debt to a brewery company from when we ran a pub. The debt we don't dispute it's the fees.

It has been in the hands of HCE Group for approximately 3 years now. We couldn't afford to pay much at all and agreed on £20/month paid by DD. The original debt was for £6490.70. We've had occasional visits from time to time to try to increase the payments which we couldn't afford to do. However, these visits have increased over the last year and even more so in the last 4 months.

So when the visits started to increase I learnt that we weren't paying any of the original debt off, just interest and that we now owed £9000 odd!! So my OH emailed them asking for a full breakdown. They have finally answered in writing, after another 2 visits and us requesting it all in writing several times.

My issue is the amount of fees, all listed below:

£8061.30 remains payable to the Claimant, made up as follows: -
£6325.70 remains from an original £6490.70 Judgment Amount + £355.00 Judgment Costs
£111.75 Costs of Execution
£1623.85 Interest (to date) @ 8.00% p.a.
£1025.53 remains payable to Officer Costs, inclusive of VAT, made up as follows: -
£0.00 remains from an original £2.35 Seizure Fee
£0.00 remains from an original £4.70 Enquiry Fee
£60.00 remains from an original total of £119.01 Mileage
£0.00 remains from a total collected £24.49 Valuation Fee [currently applicable]
£0.00 remains from a total collected £109.34 Daily Seizure Fee [currently applicable]
£324.59 remains from a total charged (to date) £355.00 Enforcement Costs
£227.56 remains from an original £254.72 Poundage
£413.38 remains from an original combined total of £437.88 for: £50.00 Arrangement Fee;
£100.00 Default Fees; £129.25 Administration Fee and £158.63 Financial Management Fee

Can I dispute any of these fees?

If not I'm just going to have to rub more salt into the wounds and increase the monthly payment. The HCEO's have never gained access and have been told we have nothing they can take as our car is in the limited company name, so no list has ever been made to my knowledge.

Thanks

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Yes - I'll reply in more detail this evening. have you thought about apply for a Stay of Executio? Have you applied for a Variation Order or is the agreement tp pay just a mutual one?

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Ok thanks Ploddertom.

We haven't applied for anything.

The debt is what it is unfortunately, for beverages bought from the tied brewery for an unsuccessful pub, nothing can change that fact

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

£6325.70 remains from an original £6490.70 Judgment Amount + £355.00 Judgment Costs - no argument
£111.75 Costs of Execution - correct
£1623.85 Interest (to date) @ 8.00% p.a. - could be argued
£1025.53 remains payable to Officer Costs, inclusive of VAT, made up as follows: -
£0.00 remains from an original £2.35 Seizure Fee - what goods did they seize initially to enable them to charge this?
£0.00 remains from an original £4.70 Enquiry Fee - same as above
£60.00 remains from an original total of £119.01 Mileage - maximum allowable is fixed at £50 +VAT
£0.00 remains from a total collected £24.49 Valuation Fee [currently applicable] - what have they valued
£0.00 remains from a total collected £109.34 Daily Seizure Fee [currently applicable] - again what goods are they claiming to have seized
£324.59 remains from a total charged (to date) £355.00 Enforcement Costs - needs breaking down into specifics
£227.56 remains from an original £254.72 Poundage - they can only charge for what they have actually collected which is 5% on the first £100 and 2.5% on the remainder
£413.38 remains from an original combined total of £437.88 for: £50.00 Arrangement Fee;
£100.00 Default Fees; £129.25 Administration Fee and £158.63 Financial Management Fee - all of these differing fees may be challenged. Have you defaulted on 2 payments?

Can I dispute any of these fees?

If not I'm just going to have to rub more salt into the wounds and increase the monthly payment. The HCEO's have never gained access and have been told we have nothing they can take as our car is in the limited company name, so no list has ever been made to my knowledge.

Thanks

How did you trade at the time? Did you know about the original CCJ & did you defend it at all?

[wales01man]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

I would carry on paying the 20 quid a month paying more than this or paying the same will only increase the fees so the debt will carry on for ever 20 quid a month I expect will in time not be missed and this will piss off the HCEO no doubt the Brewery don't even know the money is coming in.
Was this a brewery or a pubco?

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

How did you trade at the time? Did you know about the original CCJ & did you defend it at all?

Sorry, I thought the 'quote' thing would copy your entire post

The interest I want to argue as I feel the APR rate is very high compared to high street banks, more loan shark rate
They have seized stuff all! (I've become quite nifty with handling bailiffs from my past, not a week went by..... )
As above
Is that maximum per visit or in total? They've made various visits that really weren't required.
They have valued stuff all again, maybe our old pick up truck that's in the drive way but no paperwork has been issued, so they can crack on as that's in our limited company name
Again no goods, maybe he got some chicken shit stuck to his shoe on the drive??? :bedjump:
Ok, so I will ask them for a breakdown.
For what they have collected - money wise or item wise?
We have never defaulted a payment, we agreed it and stuck to it.

They're applying interest rates that they said we will never be able to pay the debt off at the initial agreed rate.

My OH was a sole trader at the time the debt was accrued and we knew all about the actions, but could neither defend the debt (as we had taken deliveries and signed for them) nor pay anything as at points we had half a chicken in the fridge and 23p in our pocket!

I'm not one for shirking my debts when we have incurred them, and we have worked so hard over the last few years to pay a majority of them off rather than going bankrupt, but dealing with HCEO's is different to dealing with the bailiffs.

I really appreciate all your help

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

I would carry on paying the 20 quid a month paying more than this or paying the same will only increase the fees so the debt will carry on for ever 20 quid a month I expect will in time not be missed and this will piss off the HCEO no doubt the Brewery don't even know the money is coming in.
Was this a brewery or a pubco?

Thanks We have never missed a payment and will continue to pay. The brewery was Robinsons. They were nice to your face but didn't have any empathy when we were burgled and I wanted out of the industry, they put us into another pub!

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Sorry, I thought the 'quote' thing would copy your entire post - as you found out it doesn't copy that already quoted unless of course you copy & paste.

The interest I want to argue as I feel the APR rate is very high compared to high street banks, more loan shark rate 8% is normal and is allowed by the County Court Act
They have seized stuff all! (I've become quite nifty with handling bailiffs from my past, not a week went by..... )
As above
Is that maximum per visit or in total? They've made various visits that really weren't required. have a read of http://www.hceoa.org.uk/regulatory-i...ions-2004.html the fees are a fair way down the page.
They have valued stuff all again, maybe our old pick up truck that's in the drive way but no paperwork has been issued, so they can crack on as that's in our limited company name
Again no goods, maybe he got some chicken shit stuck to his shoe on the drive??? :bedjump:
Ok, so I will ask them for a breakdown.
For what they have collected - money wise or item wise? they can only charge poundage for what they have actually collected
We have never defaulted a payment, we agreed it and stuck to it. in that case they need to be challenged on the Default Payments as they charge £50 for each time.

They're applying interest rates that they said we will never be able to pay the debt off at the initial agreed rate.

My OH was a sole trader at the time the debt was accrued and we knew all about the actions, but could neither defend the debt (as we had taken deliveries and signed for them) nor pay anything as at points we had half a chicken in the fridge and 23p in our pocket!

I'm not one for shirking my debts when we have incurred them, and we have worked so hard over the last few years to pay a majority of them off rather than going bankrupt, but dealing with HCEO's is different to dealing with the bailiffs.

I really appreciate all your help

Have you been informed each year that they have applied for the Writ to be renewed? A Writ only lasts for 12 months but can be renewed upon request and that is charged to you also, you should get notification of this. Were you paying the £20 per month before the HCEO became involved?

To try and get some sense of when each fee was charged and for what purpose you can submit a Subject Access Request which should reveal information on this - costs £10 and they have 40 days in which to comply.

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Thanks ploddertom

We started paying the £20 per month from near on the beginning of the HCEO's involvement not before, we've never received any paperwork or information about an annual continuation. We kind of stuck our head in the sand with this one thinking 'ok, we're paying £20/mth so it's kind of sorted for now'.

Could you post the link for the SAR request please and I will do this as the description on some of the fees is a bit evasive to say the least!

Thanks again

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

You will some SAR's that go on like a novel, for me I have used a simple request that appears to work.

"From:
My Name
My Address

To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Date

Dear Sir
Data Protection Act 1998
Subject Access Request

Dear Sir


Please supply a complete list of ALL the data held and used by you that relate to Mr XXXX. It is also to include third party information held with all other agencies.

Additionally where there has been an event in the account(s) history during the period accounts have been placed with you that have required any manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have been caused or resulted from that manual intervention.

I would like to bring to your attention data can be held in written information, e-mails, electronic documents, photographs, CCTV images, telephone conversations and include any recorded or written opinions about me/us and any recorded or written intentions and action taken regarding me/us.

I/We would like this information to be sent to my/our home address as listed above. You have 40 days in which to comply.

To satisfy payment to supply this information I/we enclose a fee of £10 this payment must not be used for any other purpose.


Yours sincerely


A Peeved Debtor"

[ploddertom]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

If you are being hassled for greater payments then it is a simple matter to apply for a Variation Order whereby the Court can set an affordable payment. It does work both ways in that the other side can also apply to have it increased but it is subject to a submitted I&E to the Court which should reflect your finances - sometimes offers have been lowered further still by a Judge.

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

I will apply a SAR request for a complete breakdown.

If you guys are saying 8% is fair, I'm just going to have to choke and swallow But I think they should have told us many years before this was the situation.

I still don't completely understand the:

£227.56 remains from an original £254.72 Poundage - they can only charge for what they have actually collected which is 5% on the first £100 and 2.5% on the remainder

For what they have collected - money wise or item wise? they can only charge poundage for what they have actually collected

They have collected nothing from us physically just financially with our repayment plan.

Can they make a claim on our truck even though it was paid for and in the name of our limited company?

I worry about going to court about repayments as our income will show up as above average, but all the money has gone to repaying debts, certainly not into our coffers! And business has been a lot slower this year so income is no where near the same

Thanks again

[Burnybum]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Also, we have requested by email (along with a full breakdown of costs), for a monthly payment amount that would start to pay the debt off, which they haven't answered.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

The brewery was Robinsons.

Was it, by God?

I must say I've heard some nasty things about those users of the Tin Brook, but never quite as bad as this.

They were nice to your face but didn't have any empathy when we were burgled and I wanted out of the industry, they put us into another pub!

Perhaps they'd overindulged on Old Tom? :grin:

[CleverClogs]

Re: HCEO fees and actions

Can they make a claim on our truck even though it was paid for and in the name of our limited company?

Not lawfully, as your limited company is a separate legal entity from you and/or your OH.

Who owns your present home?

Who was sued by the ba:censored:rds at Robinsons?

Did you tell the Stockport Express about your problems?