Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

[wales01man]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

have you asked the council for all the paperwork without this you may not have any defence just saying you dispute the debt wont get it cancelled after so much time and a CCJ there are things that must be done otherwise you are liable?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

Did you not when you changed the address knowing that the council were after you for money for an invoice that was disputed not withdrawn inform them of the change of address,
You may find in law they are allowed to serve papers at your last known address after all its not their fault you changed address or did you inform them?

Sorry to be so blunt but this is how things are and the council has a duty to recover debts unless that debt is cancelled

Indeed - it does look rather like this whole mess is pretty much the fault of ABIDOXXX.

That's why I commented that it was too late for him to seek damages from the hospital where he was born, which he (or someone else) seems to have reported as being offensive. Well, that's just too bad, as neither tenant is responsible for paying the bill because the maintenance of the property is the responsibility of the landlord.

Even if the crotchspawn of the upstairs tenant had been leaping up and down on the bathroom tiles, it would take rather more water than a mere trickle to make the ceiling collapse, regardless of whether it was composed of plasterboard or the old fashioned lath and plaster.

It may be possible to try to get the CCJ set aside, but Mr Agadoo will need a plausible defence and, from what I've seen so far, he's got bugger all chance of that.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

But now i wish to have the debt cancelled as i dont feel as though i am liable.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

If you are neither responsible or liable, who is?

[ABIDOXXX]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

Hi Red Slater

The ceiling had previously been replaced so there were no lathes.It was made up of plaster board.

The bath contained no water once the work men arrived and there was a sufficiant enough hole to carry out any inspections.

[ABIDOXXX]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

The tennant caused the damage so i would say they are responsible.When i gave them the house the bath and all its seals and tiles were in good order.

Based on the fact that the tennant was responsible.I would think it also reasonable to assume they were liable.

Are wishes still horses and are the beggers still riding them ???

[CleverClogs]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

The tennant caused the damage so i would say they are responsible.When i gave them the house the bath and all its seals and tiles were in good order.

Based on the fact that the tennant was responsible.I would think it also reasonable to assume they were liable.

Do you suppose that you might get any money from them?

[Gorang]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

few bits of damp plaster board dangling.Nothing i would call dangerous.

Did you see the "dangling" plasterboard BEFORE the workmen pulled it down??
If not then you can't possible tell if it was dangerous or NOT, unless you have seen pics that was taken of it BEFORE the workmen pulled it down
Is there any pics, if there are have you seen them????

The council workers literally pulled away the remaining damp plaster board with thier fingers.They didnt need to.If the plaster board was going to fall it would have fallen already.

I disagree as it COULD and CAN fall at ANY time if it is damp or wet so council DID the right thing IMHO, and again how can you say for sure that the dangling bits would NOT of fallen down, unless you seen what was left hanging.
DID you see what was left hanging??
I assume that you didn't (unless it was in pics) as I suspect that if you had seen it in person then you would of sent the councils workmen away and contracted someone of your choice to carry out the work. Am I right in my assumption???

They also did not carry out the work du diligently.They should have used a stanly knife and cut out only damp plaster board instead by pulling on the plaster board they caused more damage by pulling down dry plaster board to creating more work once the ceiling is to be repaired.

IMO It would of made NO difference weather a stanley knife was used or not as when the new plasterboard goes up it still need taped and plastered, so that WILL affect either surrounding dry plaster board or walls, where the damp wet plasterboard has been next to no matter what, Also even if they did remove more plasterboard than they needed to. Whats the cost of a sheet of plasterboard, £10 to £15 for a 2.4x1.2mm sheet??? In my view that's a small price to pay to ensure that ALL of the wet plasterboard is GONE.

They then cleaned up the mess and left.This would come under not immediate danger but inconvienience comment.

I can't see how you can come to that conclusion as plasterboard is held to the roof joists with either nails or screws and as you have already said

The seals and tiles at on end of the bath were broken by tennants children standing on them.

there were children in the house, if the workmen left a mess with nails, screws or even bits of wood from the roof laying around then it would of been very irresponsible of them

Yes the tenants could of been worried of telling you so they called the council, but in MY view of this, the council did the correct thing in removing any further risk of anyone being hurt

I am not on here to ask for help on my stupidity but to gain knowlege on what to do to recify my situation.

as you disputed the councils invoice then ignored it

I disputed the bill on a number of grounds
I also disputed the bill because the amount billed didnt match the work that was carried out.
I ignored the bill because i felt i wasnt liable.

you would need VERY good grounds to be able to apply for a set aside and if the council can/have provided a breakdown of their costs, unless their is anything within that that could be used to as grounds for a set aside then I seriously doubt that a court would even entertain an application for set aside as the first question a judge will ask
WHY did you not acknowledge the claim then defend it when you managed to contest the invoice??
and as you can't give a good reason (which, not updating your service address is NOT an good reason, as you know) as to why you didn't acknowledge or defend
and I doubt very much if there is anything strong enough in the council breakdown that will over come the fact you didn't acknowledge or defend the claim

Only thing I can suggest is will your landlords insurance cover the CCJ amount??
Providing they don't take the view as a court would, ie why did you not acknowledge and defend

[Gorang]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

The tennant caused the damage so i would say they are responsible.When i gave them the house the bath and all its seals and tiles were in good order.

Based on the fact that the tennant was responsible.I would think it also reasonable to assume they were liable.

Can you NOT periodically check the house to make sure that tenants kids are not wrecking the place

And if tenants are wrecking a rented property, is there not some sort of landlords insurance to cover this

I ask as I don't know what a landlords insurance covers

[Gorang]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

Based on the fact that the tennant was responsible.I would think it also reasonable to assume they were liable.

Possibly for the FIRST council bill maybe
but certainly not the charges that will have mounted up with court fees and bailiff fees

[wales01man]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

And the chances of the tenant paying are........ less than zilch

[CleverClogs]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

And the chances of the tenant paying are........ less than zilch

Statistically, that is impossible - probability cannot be less than zero.

The judgement seems unlikely to be set aside and, even if it were, the chances of him winning his case the second time around seem to be rather low.

Rather than ramp up even more costs (about which he will doubtlessly kvetch) he'd be better paying the debt and giving to charity some of the money he would have wasted in fighting this. At least he'd then know that he'd not helped to make a fat lawyer even fatter.

[bluebottle]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

ABIDOXXX,

I have to agree with Clever Clogs, Gorang and wales01man.

From the way this reads, water had gotten into the void between the ceiling below and floor above the main floor bearers. The timber used in house construction has and still is White Deal timber. It is widely-used in the construction industry and, also, in the furniture industry, mainly, because it is cheap. However, it is a softwood and absorbs moisture readily, if not correctly treated to waterproof it.

From what you have said about the work the local authority has carried out, it sounds like they removed the plasterboard ceiling in order to expose the main floor bearers and allow them to dry out. Bearing in mind that the property is part of a terrace, if the work had not been done, the timber would have bowed, quite possibly, sagged, and, eventually given way, affecting the structure not only of your property, but that of adjacent properties also. There is no indication of just how advanced the water ingress was and how badly the floor bearers were affected.

You should have Landlord Insurance to cover you for damage by tenants, though, whether you would be covered in this instance is another matter. Most residential tenancies will have a clause requiring internal decoration and "make good" repairs, except where electricity, gas and water are concerned. This, however, is a structural matter and you could be asked questions as to whether periodic inspections were carried out or not.

If you want my honest opinion, I feel you are on a hiding to nothing and should settle asap before the bailiffs add further fees.

As for the bailiffs who called, are they acting as High Court Enforcement Officers (previously known as Sheriffs)? You should be aware that any claim of £600 or more can be transferred to the High Court for enforcement. The fees a HCEO can add to a claim can often be substantial. This may well explain why £800 has become £1600+.

[enquirer]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

Notwithstanding, Enquirer, if the ceiling collapse could have lead to the bearers holding up the floor above giving way and affecting the structural integrity of the building, then that is something a local authority would need to deal with quickly, especially if the property holder could not be readily contacted or not doing anything could affect neighbouring or adjoining properties.

Hm.

Sodden plasterboard may be messy and inconvenient, but it certainly isn't a danger to the public. Ceilings are only rarely structural components, and a simple wetting will have no effect on joists.

How many burst pipes and overflowing baths are there? How many ruined ceilings are there as a result? Are such things now a licence for councils to send men to burst into every home in the land?

I see an out-of-control council.

[wales01man]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

I see a landlord who thinks he can avoid paying.
Unless you saw the damage you would not be able to assess the danger its now about the CCJ not what was the reason for the repair

[Gorang]

Re: Being chased for a debt i dont believe i owe.

I see a landlord who thinks he can avoid paying.
Unless you saw the damage you would not be able to assess the danger its now about the CCJ not what was the reason for the repair

Dito