Outstanding fines

[Pads]

Hello I am after some advice please, I had a compensation order made against me April this year for about £1700 soon after this I started getting visits from swift for a sum of £165 and upon calling them was told it was for a missed court appearance £80 and £85 cost to swift, however the £80 had been paid a week prior to this letter, I have told swift this and now this amount has gone up to £300... My other problem is due to being of work sick etc, the £1700 has not been paid, and I have now received a further steps notice back in November for a sum of £3006.94. I rang the fines centre regarding this matter and a few options where discussed I asked for a break down of this figure and was never given one , also I was advised to contact my local court due to the fact these fines where issued in Wales and am now living in Portsmouth, also I was told to see if I could get any benefits due to being of work sick, also a sum of £29 a week was agreed in principle over the two years. However no breakdown was given to new and made enquiries to local court and benefit office and was awaiting replies from them. A week ago excel sent a enforcement officer to me demanding around 2000 I never let him in and asked him what that was for as I had a different amount and was dealing with the fines centre, after 2 hours of harassment from the bailiff 6 police officers arrested me and put me in cuffs allowing bailiff into house upsetting partner and kids , he has listed 11 items which he's been told are not mine and reckons he's taking them when he calls today. However. When calling the excel call centre they told me the distress warrant he came out with was recalled by the court and that they have just been given a new one for the £3006 by the fines centre. Now I called the courts in wales, the fines centre, citizens advice etc and seem to be banging my head against a wall. I asked the court for a copy of impositions against me which they sent last Friday, it totals £400 less than the further steps notice yet the fines centre claim they have correct figure, 2 of the fines on the impositions I wasn't aware of 1 from mid 2010 and 1 in 2011 both issued by court in Wales however I moved from there beginning of 2010, they have rolled all my fines into 1 account , I have asked to be taken back to court to be means tested but all they say now is sort it with bailiffs... Any help please on this nightmare would be great as it's causing me problems

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Before advising you, would you please post up which police force handcuffed you in order to facilitate a bailiff entering your home and what was their reason for doing so?

[Pads]

Re: Outstanding fines

The police force was havant, and he said it was due to the amount of time it was taking

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

The police force was havant, and he said it was due to the amount of time it was taking

Right. So it was Hampshire Police. Who said it was due to the amount of time it was taking, the police or bailiff? Also, on what grounds did the police say they were arresting you?

Additionally, you say that the distress warrant had been recalled. Was this prior to the bailiff turning up and having six police officers "assist" him/her to gain entry?

[Pads]

Re: Outstanding fines

Yes it was the police that said it was due to the amount of time and the warrant that was being executed had been recalled prior to the visit , I was informed of that the following evening by the excel call centre that it had been recalled a while back but the courts never notified them

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

Yes it was the police that said it was due to the amount of time and the warrant that was being executed had been recalled prior to the visit , I was informed of that the following evening by the excel call centre that it had been recalled a while back but the courts never notified them

Okay. Thank you for that information. You need to check with the courts as to when the warrant was recalled, the date they informed Excel and how they informed them. On the face of it, Excel may have acted without lawful authority. The actions of the police in the matter may call into question the legality of their involvement.

I have to be blunt and say that you may have grounds to make a formal complaint against Excel to HMCTS. However, you do need to ask the court that issued the original warrant as to when they recalled the warrant and the date they informed Excel and by what method. This is important.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Outstanding fines

The police force was havant, and he said it was due to the amount of time it was taking

Those woodentops havant a clue. :grin:

[Pads]

Re: Outstanding fines

Just found out from court excel returned it on 4th of November ,

[CleverClogs]

Re: Outstanding fines

Just found out from court excel returned it on 4th of November ,

And yet they sent out a goon some two weeks later?

They do seem to have been naughty!

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

Just found out from court excel returned it on 4th of November ,

And when was this alleged new warrant issued to Excel? If no warrant was in force on the day this incident occurred, the bailiff and the police officers involved are in serious trouble.

[Pads]

Re: Outstanding fines

The new one was apparently issued on the 18th but have only the fines centre word on this no letter or anything to confirm but the new one is for the higher sum as they say all fines have been placed into 1 account

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

The new one was apparently issued on the 18th but have only the fines centre word on this no letter or anything to confirm but the new one is for the higher sum as they say all fines have been placed into 1 account

A few questions -

1. Was this done at your request? The court would have to make a Consolidation Order in order to combine multiple fines into one account.
2. Were you aware of the court hearings? If not, the court needs to explain why you were not told.
3. Has, at any time, your means (income and expenditure) been examined by the court?

The scenario you describe in your initial post has happened to others and it is serious. There is a Judicial Review that you may wish to remind the court about, namely, R -v- South Western Magistrates (on the application of Purnell). It sounds like someone at the court has been playing silly buggers. If you still find yourself banging your head against a brick wall, you may need to escalate the matter up through the different levels of HMCTS in order to achieve a satisfactory resolution.

[Pads]

Re: Outstanding fines

The answer to all 3 questions is , NO

and yet every time I speak to courts I get told to speak to the fines office and when I speak to them stating some sections of law which I have found online I get we are not legally trained to deal with your enquiry.

[bluebottle]

Re: Outstanding fines

The answer to all 3 questions is , NO

and yet every time I speak to courts I get told to speak to the fines office and when I speak to them stating some sections of law which I have found online I get we are not legally trained to deal with your enquiry.

Thank you for that. It sounds very much that someone at the court is, indeed, playing silly buggers. Next time you ring the court, ask to speak to the Court Manager. If the phone answering muppet insist you have to speak to the Fines Office, the answer to that is -

"Am I to understand you are refusing to put me through to the Court Manager?"

You would be surprised how quickly their attitude changes. Any further problems you experience, especially with the Court Manager, can be dealt with by using the following -

"Am I to understand it is your wish that I escalate this matter to a higher authority within Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service?"

If you need to escalate the matter, the route should be -

Level 1 - Authorised Enforcement Agent (Bailif Company);
Level 2 - Court Staff;
Level 3 - HMCTS Area Enforcement Team;
Level 4 - HMCTS Regional Enforcement Team.

It is very rare indeed for matters to need to be escalated to the Regional Enforcement Team. It is rarer still for matters to be escalated higher that the Regional Enforcement Team.

Speak to the Court Manager and then escalate from there, if necessary. But from what you have said, it is clear proper procedures have not been followed.