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I received a council tax LO for the whole year to April 2014 but we moved from that address in August 2013. The council said they would send out a revised version. I received the revised council tax statement but not a new liability order. Enforcement has been carried out on the basis of that new amount, correct to August 2013. But should I have had an entirely new LO? Would this invalidate the enforcement action? Thanks.
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
36 views but no replies... a hopeful bump for anyone who might know the answer to this?
My expectation is that if an order is signed then that is it, legally speaking, and would have to be challenged in court, although I have nothing concrete to base this assumption on.
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Council tax when not paid in full or in agreed instalments becomes due for the whole year that's what they obtain a LO for until the council are told you are no longer resident and liable for the tax in your councils area how are they to know?
I am not an expert but I think this is correct there must be regulations to read on the web by searchingComment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
as far as iam aware the lo fee stays the same just the balance is adjusted (thats what is happed with me )
have you had any bailiff letters yet ?Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
.Originally posted by TVJonesClassic View Post
To be honest, if you owe the money, you owe the money. If the council have to get another LO, they'd do it and add it to your costs, so not really in your interests to argue the toss.
You do not have to deal with the bailiffs at all about CTax issues though. As long as you can stop them gaining a valid levy on any goods (motor vehicles being the main ones as they're outside, so don't need peaceful entry to get a levy), then you can limit your liability to the bailiffs to £42.50 for two visits.
If you then pay the council directly using either the online facility or automated telephone system, make payments regularly as clockwork, say every Thursday, for the same amount each week (even if you're paid monthly, pay them weekly). After about 2 months of this we'll see if we can get the debt taken back to the council for you.
Expect the bailiffs not to like this, and threaten jail, public hanging etc... They lie. Expect the same from the council who will refuse payments if you try to pay at the council offices in person, and will tell you you have to deal with the bailiffs if you speak to them.
Are you sure it is just the one LO you have? It is worth phoning the council and getting answers to ALL these questions:
1. How many Liability Orders they have against you?
2. The dates they were obtained?
3. The addresses they were for?
4. The period of time each covers?
5. How much each one was for?
6. How much is still outstanding?
7. The dates they were passed on for enforcement?
The total of the LO(s) and the £42.50 bailiff fees are the total amount you have to pay as long as the bailiffs don't get a lawful levy. Park cars a couple of streets away and don't be put off by the bully boy tactics they will use. We're always here if you want to ask anything. :beagle:Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Thanks all. Labman, too late unfortunately. I've got a couple of other threads which say what happened. Basically they turned up while I was waiting for a complaint to be answered. Wanted to bully me into dropping it, I suppose. Not going to happen.
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Who had the complaints been made to, please? Their actions in relation to bullying you into dropping a complaint may be ultra vires.Originally posted by TVJonesClassic View PostLife is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
-ie- beyond what they should be doing.Originally posted by bluebottle View PostComment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Thank you for clarifying that, Labman. In that case, the bailiff(s) are acting ultra vires. This should be referred to the LGO, as it relates to CT, but I am wondering whether a letter to the DJ at the bailiff's (s') certificating court(s) would be worth writing. Even if the DJ does not consider it is sufficient to discharge the bailiff's (s') certificate(s), it can still be taken into consideration when his/their certificate(s) fall due for renewal.Originally posted by labman View PostLife is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Are you suggesting a Form 4 complaint, or just an informal letter? Personally I feel the LGO is the way forward here.Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
This is a good method to alert a DJ to the shenanigans that bailiff is engaged in. It is not a formal Form 4, it is a letter to the DJ highlighting aspects of their behaviour that can lie on file until the renewal date for the bailiffs certificate and can be considered at that point. If the DJ feels that the behaviour is serious they can write suggesting a Form 4 is submitted, or even Revoke the certificate without a hearing.Originally posted by labman View Post
Nothing to stop OP doing both.Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
An informal letter to the DJ, drawing their attention to the actions of these bailiffs is appropriate, in the OP's case, in addition to a formal complaint to the LGO. Don't forget that a court has the power to discharge a bailiff's certificate, without inviting a completed Form 4 or convening a formal hearing, thanks to the provisions of the Civil Procedures Rules 1998 which allow courts to make decisions of their own initiative and to dispose with cases without a hearing. Certificated bailiffs seem to be under the impression they are fireproof. They are not and those legal professionals who advise them should warn them of the caveats I have outlined under the Civil Procedures Rules 1998.Originally posted by labman View PostLife is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
There is no need for a new LO, unless the amount adjusted is higher or another tax year is included.Originally posted by TVJonesClassic View Post
The Black rat (Rattus rattus) is a common (hence the accusation of being Pleb) long-tailed rodent of the genus Rattus (rats) in the subfamily Murinae (murine rodents). The species originated in tropical Asia and spread through the Near East in Roman times (another thing that we ought to thanks the Romans for, besides roads, aqueducts and public toilets) before reaching Europe by the 1st century and spreading with Europeans across the world.
A mutation of the beast now comes black leather clad, riding a motorcycle that looks like a battenbergh cake on wheels.
A skilled predator, totally ruthless with it's prey, but also known to be extremely generous in doling out tickes that can provide points for motorists who want to downsize from mechanically propelled vehicles to bycicles.
It's a dirty job, but someone got to do it!
My opinions are free to anyone who wishes to make them theirs, but please be advised that my opinions might change without warning once more true facts are ascertainedComment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
If you have moved to a new area and a different council then they are only entitled to council tax up to the date you left imho , but doubtless as they have a LO a council will try to get the whole amount up to April 2014
If it is the same council would not the amended bill take into account the different amount at the new property?Comment
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Re: Council Tax Liability Order time frame too big, should new one have been issued?
Thanks everyone, sorry I've been away from this thread for a while. Definitely food for thought in here, much appreciated. In the face of stuff like Civea rulings that complaints to them don't halt actions, it's good to hear that my off the cuff whinge about my perception of their action as bullying might actually carry some weight.
Bluebottle, my initial complaint was to the bailiffs themselves (oh, the innocence of youth. How quickly we age.) I'm delivering a letter to the council tomorrow, with a request to get the bailiffs off our case, among other things.
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