Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

[yavoyavo]

Hi all
Whilst trying to recover extortionate bailiff fees from Swift Credit Services, I am also trying to recover illegal fees charged by Phoenix Commercial Collections. I owed a Council Tax Liability Order of £118.73 which I had forgotten about. Phoenix bailiffs arrived on 17th Sept 2013 and posted 'Removal Notice Regarding Council Tax' through the door,no doorbell ring. I get home,see this rough photocopy and wonder WTF! Theres no amount as to pay,just a mobile phone number and threat it has to be paid by 9.00pm THAT day. My wife being a sensitive soul says 'Pay it' which I duly do but ask a few questions like breakdown of fees,bailiff number and why it costs £354.00!! No explanation. I wrote to Bromley council using a template letter stating basically how the bailiffs had charged fraudulently inflated fees. They just forwarded this to Phoenix.
Today I received a reply from Phoenix saying how they had 'lawfully seized my wifes car ,they could claim the correct fee in accordance with head C of Schedule 5 in addition to the appropriate levy fee under head B,as amended!!
They're lying!They never seized my wifes car,they just post the 'Removal Notice' through the door but are charging for work they havent done. There was no clamp, nothing! They are claiming no record of the conversation with me either! I used my wifes debit card to pay but I did all the talking!!
What can I do?These lying b*****ds have fraudulently charged for work they didnt undertake and I'm angry! From what I've researched,they can only charge me a 1st visit fee of £25.00.
Any good advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
Yavoyavo

[labman]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

Sorry, it's late at night. Just to check I'm understanding correctly, you're saying all they actually did was make one visit attending to levy on goods, but you were not in?

If this is the case, the fee payable would be £24.50 not £25.00.

I would suggest you send Letter 1 from here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

Send it to the Head of Revenues at the Council reminding him of the council's vicarious liability for all fees charged by their appointed enforcement agents.

I did this a couple of years ago three years after going through an horrific ordeal with bailiffs enforcing 4 LO's. I made sure the council were as culpable as the bailiffs, and eventually they not only refunded fees, but came to an out of court settlement over compensation.

Gather your proof. That letter is a start. I ended up sending SAR's to both the bailiffs and council as well, but see how far you need to go. There's no point spending money if it can be avoided. :beagle:

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

If they are claiming to have seized the car did they leave a Notice of Seeizure for it? If so they could charge a levy fee instead of a visit fee but they cannot charge the Head C fee at the same time. Have you asked for a breakdown of the fees & have you checked to make sure the bailiff who attended is Certificated?

[yavoyavo]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

phoenixscan1.jpg

Hi and thanks for the replies!
The bailiffs are saying they 'lawfully seized my wife's car' and 'left the appropriate paperwork at my property'!
They didnt do anything apart from post a badly-photocopied 'Removal Notice Regarding Council Tax' through my door without even knocking!
No amounts of money mentioned just a mobile number! As I said in my 1st post, my wife panicked and just wanted it paid. I called the number and paid it with her debit card. In their recent reply letter,theyre even denying having any record of a telephone conversation with me. I have checked the bailiff register and the female bailiff's name doesnt show. Have they acted illegally?
Thanks

Yavoyavo

[yavoyavo]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

phoenixscan1.jpg

If they are claiming to have seized the car did they leave a Notice of Seeizure for it? If so they could charge a levy fee instead of a visit fee but they cannot charge the Head C fee at the same time. Have you asked for a breakdown of the fees & have you checked to make sure the bailiff who attended is Certificated?

They didnt leave a 'Notice of Seizure', only the attachment.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10141[/ATTACH]



They didnt leave a 'Notice of Seizure', only the attachment.

If the bailiff did not leave a seizure notice listing the items "seized" then it has not happened, full stop!

If you can afford it, and I think you should even if you can't, is send a cheque to Phoenix for the amount outstanding on the Council tax + £24.50.

Then let them argue the toss.

As a precaution I would copy the letter that you will send to Phoenix to the Council as well.

Further recomendation: send everything via recorded delivery, so you get proof that it has been delivered.

[yavoyavo]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

If the bailiff did not leave a seizure notice listing the items "seized" then it has not happened, full stop!

If you can afford it, and I think you should even if you can't, is send a cheque to Phoenix for the amount outstanding on the Council tax + £24.50.

Then let them argue the toss.

As a precaution I would copy the letter that you will send to Phoenix to the Council as well.

Further recomendation: send everything via recorded delivery, so you get proof that it has been delivered.

Thanks for the reply! Problem is, the fees have been paid! My wife panicked and paid the full £355.23 on the day instead of the lawfull amount which was £142.23. They charged a £212.00 van fee for not doing/seizing anything! I have written to the bailiffs (fobbed off with standard letter),have written to Financial Director of the council,informing him of his responsibility with regards to bailiffs and am awaiting his reply!

Yavoyavo

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

Thanks for the reply! Problem is, the fees have been paid! My wife panicked and paid the full £355.23 on the day instead of the lawfull amount which was £142.23. They charged a £212.00 van fee for not doing/seizing anything! I have written to the bailiffs (fobbed off with standard letter),have written to Financial Director of the council,informing him of his responsibility with regards to bailiffs and am awaiting his reply!

Yavoyavo

I would speak to the local Constabulary with the view of having them charged with fraud.

[Monkey Drunk]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

I would speak to the local Constabulary with the view of having them charged with fraud.

Don't be silly. It's the OP's word against the bailiff's about whether a seizure notice was left at the property and you can bet your bottom dollar who will have a carbon copy to verify the seizure. At this present time, no proof to the contrary has been provided to suggest otherwise. Calling the Police will be wasting their time and tax payers money when the OP needs to ask the Council for proof that a valid seizure took place. If your wife's car was the seized item in question, a valid V5 document along with insurance certificate/schedule in your wife's name showing she's the main driver may suffice as proof the levy and/or van fee was flawed in the first place and not due. Be prepared for the inevitable 50/50 ownership argument from the bailiff's though. If this happens, a proof of purchase may be necessary in your wife's sole name.

If, after establishing an invalid levy and a suitable time frame allotted, a refund has still not been made, I would consult a solicitor to act on your behalf if you feel it necessary. Alternatively, someone here maybe be able to draft you a letter for free to the same effect.

The Police won't do anything as they'll class it as a civil matter.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

Don't be silly. It's the OP's word against the bailiff's about whether a seizure notice was left at the property and you can bet your bottom dollar who will have a carbon copy to verify the seizure. At this present time, no proof to the contrary has been provided to suggest otherwise. Calling the Police will be wasting their time and tax payers money when the OP needs to ask the Council for proof that a valid seizure took place. If your wife's car was the seized item in question, a valid V5 document along with insurance certificate/schedule in your wife's name showing she's the main driver may suffice as proof the levy and/or van fee was flawed in the first place and not due. Be prepared for the inevitable 50/50 ownership argument from the bailiff's though. If this happens, a proof of purchase may be necessary in your wife's sole name.

If, after establishing an invalid levy and a suitable time frame allotted, a refund has still not been made, I would consult a solicitor to act on your behalf if you feel it necessary. Alternatively, someone here maybe be able to draft you a letter for free to the same effect.

The Police won't do anything as they'll class it as a civil matter.

I would suggest you sober up, Monkey Drunk, as you appear to be living up to the second part your name. Sir Vere is not the best person to argue with as regards the subject of enforcement matters. He has worked in that field.

As for the final comment in your post, the reality is that an increasing number of serving police officers are getting wise to the misconduct of certificated bailiffs and either won't attend or, as police in Southern England did, during 2012, removed a bailiff with the toe of their boot after the bailiff lied to them they were a court bailiff and that the police had to help them gain entry to a property. The police had doubts about the Liability Order the bailiff was waving about and their doubts were confirmed when it was subsequently established the LO had been obtained on an Information that contained perjured evidence.

[Monkey Drunk]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

I would suggest you sober up, Monkey Drunk, as you appear to be living up to the second part your name. Sir Vere is not the best person to argue with as regards the subject of enforcement matters. He has worked in that field.

If Sir Vere has worked in the industry then I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to reply on his own if he feels the need without you rolling out the red carpet and kissing his derriere.

As for YOUR final comment, the example you provide is of no relevance to this topic. The reality IS that the police will do nothing.

Back to the topic....

[MissFM]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

op2:

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

If Sir Vere has worked in the industry then I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to reply on his own if he feels the need without you rolling out the red carpet and kissing his derriere.

As for YOUR final comment, the example you provide is of no relevance to this topic. The reality IS that the police will do nothing.

Back to the topic....

Perhaps you would care to show your hand, Monkey Drunk. Are you a certificated bailiff, by any chance, or just someone who comes onto advice forums in order to wind people up?

[labman]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

There were two posts on October 25th stating you should ask for the fees, one by me and one by Ploddertom immediately afterwards (Posts 2 and 3). I assume this letter was sent - have you received a reply yet - they have had plenty of time. If not, chase them up via post and email.

What should have been left I believe is a Form 7:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...heading/7/made

If this was not left, then it may be a case for swearing a Statutory Declaration and pursuing through the county court, but clearly you cannot contemplate action until you have a detailed breakdown of their fees to see exactly what has been charged and why.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Bailiff fees - Phoenix Commercial Collections

If Sir Vere has worked in the industry then I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to reply on his own if he feels the need without you rolling out the red carpet and kissing his derriere.

As for YOUR final comment, the example you provide is of no relevance to this topic. The reality IS that the police will do nothing.

Back to the topic....

Having not being on line for a few days I might be late in replying.

I did write "speak" not call.....a nice little walk/drive to the local Knick and a quiet discussion with the Station Sargeant won't hurt.

As far as rolling out the red and having my buttocks kissed I do not mind, since I had them kicked a few times a kiss-kiss to make the booboo go away it's always welcome

As far as the topic at hand goes, the Bailiff made a couple of mistakes, firstly by leaving a "Removal Notice" without any figures on it or his/her name. Secondly, a Bailiff who has seized goods must leave a "Notice of seizure of Goods and Inventory" (Form 7) which supersedes the "Removal Notice"...you do not leave both.

It is good practice to have Form 7 signed by the debtor, if only to ensure that more money can be made by doing a walking possession agreement, however, since the LO was paid on the first visit there is still an issue with overcharging.

Unfortunately for the OP, a Council Tax LO is the responsibility of all adult parties who lived at the property for which the LO was issued, so unless his wife is "new" and never lived at the property for which said LO was issued, the levy on her car was unlawful.

However, there are too many variants and too few questions answered to give "to the point advice".