Help with bailiff threat

[DaveH27]

My daughter and her husband ran up a Council Tax debt and have now moved to a smaller flat to try and reduce costs. She has telephoned the council (Cardiff) asking if she can reduce payments until the move is sorted. Paying off gas/electric and moving costs etc. have left them short. The council have offered no support in their efforts and the debt, already in the hands of Bristow & Sutor is going to cause even more short term trouble. She requested a reduced payment which they refused and sent the following email. As far as I know, they have agreed payments with these bailiffs and are just looking for breathing space but they are getting heavy. Any advice will be gratefully received.

Dear Madam

Re: Outstanding Council Tax due to Cardiff County Council

We write with reference to the above and acknowledge receipt of your email, the contents of which have been duly noted.

We have attempted to call you on your mobile phone and the work number that was previously provided unfortunately we were unable to speak with you.

At this time bailiffs have been instructed to attend your property with the intention of collecting the balance in full in cleared funds or the removal of goods to be sold at public auction, only the full balance of £1200.30 paid immediately will prevent this action.

Please note if you refuse entry to our bailiffs they can gain access to the property with the assistance of a lock smith to remove goods as we have previously gained peaceable access to the property and a walking possession agreement was signed.

We advise any partial payments received will proceed to lower your balance only they will not prevent recovery action

We trust this clarifies the situation

Yours faithfully


Mrs C Corcoran
Recovery Officer
Bristow & Sutor

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

Are the claims being made by the council as regards peaceable entry and a Walking Possession Agreement true in every respect? If not, both the council and B & S could be in serious trouble.

[DaveH27]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

They are true in that her husband seems to have signed papers which I have not had sight of, however that was at the last address, not where they are now. She contacted B & S to notify them of change of address and to request help, this was their response. They are both scared stiff by these "threats" despite my attempts to calm them and with a 2 year old child are frightened for her as well. The new flat is a multi occupancy building so I wonder if they would be legally entitled to gain access to that part before reaching her flat on a higher floor. Thanks for the welcome and reply so far.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

It will depend on the address stated on the Liability Order. If it is the old address, it applies only to the old address. I doubt very much whether B & S can roll up at the new address and force entry. Try and find out which address is on the Liability Order.

[bizzybob]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

As we are talking Busted & Stupid here it is odds on the LO is to the old address, if so as alluded o by BB, they cannot rely on a Walking Possession for a previous address to break into a new one.

[DaveH27]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

OK.....but knowing the pair of them I doubt they have any paperwork. It is unlikely to be the new address as they have only been there for a few weeks and as the debt was for the previous residence, I must assume any liability refers to that. I am trying to buy them time as they have been paying the debt as requested and intend to keep doing that. Will they have to be served different papers at the new address referring back to the old one?

[bizzybob]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

OK.....but knowing the pair of them I doubt they have any paperwork. It is unlikely to be the new address as they have only been there for a few weeks and as the debt was for the previous residence, I must assume any liability refers to that. I am trying to buy them time as they have been paying the debt as requested and intend to keep doing that. Will they have to be served different papers at the new address referring back to the old one?

Don't think the bailiff can rely on a WP from a previous address, so tell them to pay the council direct even using online, tender payment to Cyngor Caerdydd, and get the counter drone to sign to the effect they cannot accept payment as it is with bailiffs, handy for a Formal Complaint later, as it is unlawful for the council to refuse a tendered payment, and keep the bailiff out, hide any car.

[DaveH27]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

Car???? Only have one pedal bike between the pair of them! I will act on all this advice. Thanks to all.

[bizzybob]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

Car???? Only have one pedal bike between the pair of them! I will act on all this advice. Thanks to all.

Bonkers & Stupid are crazy and greedy enough to levy a pushbike, a wheelchair, a mobility scooter, they are a particularly nasty obstructive bunch of clowns, but beagles will help you bite them back.

[Lollypop63]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

Dpending on their finances they should go to the CAB(citizens advice) and ask about a DRO, (Debt Relief Order), BUT be aware these should not be entered into lightly, but ghe could be out of this ddbt in a year and pay nothing! Do NOT let ghem into the new property at all, if the address is the old one,, others can advise on this, we have just had to get a DRO ourselves, talk to the CAB first and they can explain it all to you. GOODLUCK...

[CleverClogs]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

They should try to avoid calling Cardiff's Head of Revenues a pen pidyn.

He won't like it and he'll like even less having to Google it because his knowledge of Welshish is so poor.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

They should try to avoid calling Cardiff's Head of Revenues a pen pidyn.

He won't like it and he'll like even less having to Google it because his knowledge of Welshish is so poor.

I take it that "pen pidyn" is something particularly rude, Cloggy.:grin:

[labman]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

Hi DaveH,

Welcome to Legal Beagles!

The situation your son-in-law and daughter find themselves in is unfortunate, but they are best continuing to pay what they can afford, as regular as clockwork, directly to the council. As long as they are paying, and can be seen to be paying, it is unlikely (obviously there are no guarantees) that the bailiffs will remove goods.

As regards the walking possession, IMO they can, technically, still force entry to the new property - I'll explain.

When a walking possession agreement is signed, the goods siezed no longer belong to you daughter and son in law, ownership passes to the bailiff - they are his! Technically they are not supposed to move the goods thereafter, as they are not theirs to move. If they do, and the bailiff knows where they are, he is quite entitled to go and get them - they are his.

However, if reasonable payments are being made every week, it is unlikely this will happen, and it would be a very foolish bailiff who forced entry without permission from the court.

So what should they do, other than continue paying a reasonable sum each week?

They need to send Letter 1 from here so we can ascertain whether or not B&S's charges are legal or not:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

I would also involve the local Councillor (LINK) to intervene URGENTLY on their behalf. If s/he gets no satisfaction from the council in terms of accepting a repayment plan and calling off the bailiffs, then write to the Head of the Council and Head of the Opposition. It wold do no harm to copy in your MP either.

As long as the council can see they are going to get their money, ideally by the end of March, there should not be a major problem. However, theory and practice are not always the same thing.

Do all the above to start with, post up with any problems as and when they happen, and certainly when you get the breakdown of fees, and we'll take things from there.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

I take it that "pen pidyn" is something particularly rude, Cloggy.:grin:

Yes. msl:

[bizzybob]

Re: Help with bailiff threat

I take it that "pen pidyn" is something particularly rude, Cloggy.:grin:

Welsh for Richard Cranium, as it happens I am in Cardiff at the moment, and CC is right not as many speak Welsh here as you would think.