Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

:flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig:

Obviously, Cloggy, you haven't dealt directly with HMCTS Enforcement as I have. We know what happened in the Melanie Boswell case and, if it could have been different, I reckon it would have gone further than HMCTS Head of Enforcement Operations (South). Much further.

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

:flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig: :flypig:

How many points do I get for putting a bullet through each of your flying pigs, Cloggy?

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

At last, some straight talking no nonsense, realistic advice :cheer2: thank you

I'll have a go at compiling as factual account as possible. Fortunately I've the names and numbers of attending officers/sergeant. Is it worth starting from the beginning listing the paperwork I received and the dates of visit. How much detail do you think is required.
Or should I just be asking for if the bailiff was authorised to carry out the action of entering with a locksmith, and was there a warrnat?

You need to ask the following questions -

1. On what date did Stratford MC issue a Distress Warrant to Marstons?
2. Did Marstons request authority to force entry to your home from the nominated officer at Stratford MC?
3. If "Yes", on what date?
4. Was authority to force entry given by the nominated officer and what grounds did Marstons cite as their reasons for wanting to force entry?

Once you have answers to these questions from the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager for London, it should become clearer whether the bailiff acted lawfully or not, or if he/Marstons mislead HMCTS in order to obtain authority to force entry. After that, we can then tackle the Metropolitan Police about the actions of their officers and, in particular, Sergeant Stupid.

[Fizz]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

You need to ask the following questions -

1. On what date did Stratford MC issue a Distress Warrant to Marstons?
2. Did Marstons request authority to force entry to your home from the nominated officer at Stratford MC?
3. If "Yes", on what date?
4. Was authority to force entry given by the nominated officer and what grounds did Marstons cite as their reasons for wanting to force entry?

Once you have answers to these questions from the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager for London, it should become clearer whether the bailiff acted lawfully or not, or if he/Marstons mislead HMCTS in order to obtain authority to force entry. After that, we can then tackle the Metropolitan Police about the actions of their officers and, in particular, Sergeant Stupid.

Thank you, all done,
email and letter to marston for breakdown of fees
email to HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager requesting info on warrant

Will let you know what responses I receive

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

Thank you, all done,
email and letter to marston for breakdown of fees
email to HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager requesting info on warrant
Will let you know what responses I receive

The response from the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager should be interesting.

[Fizz]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

I've received a response from marstns, but they have their figures wrong. I have a receipt, with reference number totaling £2542.34. I have a feeling they have not included the 3rd fine they notified me on the day I made payment for the original £2297.34.

I also cant work out their fees, are these correct, can anyone help? Edited - just seen a copy of marstns fee schedule, its as stated apart from locksmith fee.

Fine 1623.34
Compliance Fee 85.00
Attendance to remove 215.00
Locksmith fee 114.00
Vehicle removal 200.00
Storage 60 (3 days although they wouldn't take payment from me the following day after removal)
Payment received 2297.34

Gong back to my original question, they claim the bailiff was certificated a day after (Sat 20th April, courts not open) he broke in with the locksmith and removed the vehicles (Fri 19th April). However, it is very clear this is not the case, the public notice 3rd June, states hearing was on 14 June. he is on the register from 14th June with a different company. If he wasn't required to be certificated for this work, why would there be a discrepancy do you think?

As of yet I have not received a response from the Mag Court requesting details authorisation for forced entry.

Where now do you think, back to marstns to ask for breakdown of actual fines and associated fees or someone else?

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

I've received a response from marstns, but they have their figures wrong. I have a receipt, with reference number totaling £2542.34. I have a feeling they have not included the 3rd fine they notified me on the day I made payment for the original £2297.34.

I also cant work out their fees, are these correct, can anyone help? Edited - just seen a copy of marstns fee schedule, its as stated apart from locksmith fee.

Fine 1623.34
Compliance Fee 85.00
Attendance to remove 215.00
Locksmith fee 114.00
Vehicle removal 200.00
Storage 60 (3 days although they wouldn't take payment from me the following day after removal)
Payment received 2297.34

Gong back to my original question, they claim the bailiff was certificated a day after (Sat 20th April, courts not open) he broke in with the locksmith and removed the vehicles (Fri 19th April). However, it is very clear this is not the case, the public notice 3rd June, states hearing was on 14 June. he is on the register from 14th June with a different company. If he wasn't required to be certificated for this work, why would there be a discrepancy do you think?

As of yet I have not received a response from the Mag Court requesting details authorisation for forced entry.

Where now do you think, back to marstns to ask for breakdown of actual fines and associated fees or someone else?

To be honest, Fizz, the matter of Marstons' alleged fees and the discrepancies relating thereto needs to be referred to the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager for the London area. Failing that, the next level above them is Head of Enforcement Operations (South) who is based at Southend-On-Sea. However, try and get the matter resolved at SEM level if at all possible.

[Fizz]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

To be honest, Fizz, the matter of Marstons' alleged fees and the discrepancies relating thereto needs to be referred to the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager for the London area. Failing that, the next level above them is Head of Enforcement Operations (South) who is based at Southend-On-Sea. However, try and get the matter resolved at SEM level if at all possible.

OK, but still waiting on the HMCTS SEM to reply with details regarding the warrant :ohwell:

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

OK, but still waiting on the HMCTS SEM to reply with details regarding the warrant :ohwell:

Ideal. That should give pointers as to the veracity and validity of any fees Marstons are attempting to charge.

[Milo]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

Fizz,

I would have liked to have responded sooner but with so many people posting one line comments it has taken ages to read through your thread !!

From what I can understand, it would seem that there may well be a fine that you knew nothing about. You mentioned that you had an initial contact in March and that you tried contacting the court and then a visit was made in April where the bailiff gained entry into your home.

Did you call the court in March to make enquiries? It would seem that you would have had grounds to file a Statutory Declaration and if that had been done, the visit in April would not have needed to have been made.

You say that the fine was issued at Stratford (London). I would hazard a guess that it is being administered now by the London Collection and Compliance Centre. Even though you have paid, you can STILL file a Statutory Declaration.

On the matter of bailiff certification, it is a condition of the contract that bailiffs should gain a certificate within 6 months of joining the company.

This fine appears to have previously been with Philips and transferred to Marston Group after Philips had returned the warrant back to the court. I would assume that the reason for its return was because you had moved address and this is the reason WHY you should still be allowed to file a Statutory Declaration. Philips (now called Collectica) no longer have the contract for the London area and this would explain why the court then sent the warrant to Marston Group to enforce and I would assume that the case had been referred to their "tracing dept" who found a new address for you.

In almost all cases, a stat dec should be made "within 21 days of becoming aware" of the fine. The time for this to have been done was in March when first contacted by Marston. If you can establish that the delay in filing the stat dec was due to the difficulty in finding contact details for the court etc then this will likely be accepted.

Please post back if you require further information.

[labman]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

Fizz,

I would have liked to have responded sooner but with so many people posting one line comments it has taken ages to read through your thread !!

Forgive this last short comment Milo, but I have given up trying to keep any sense to the posts here, as it would take literally 24 hours a day to keep up with the vast amount of stuff, much unnecessary, and much, IMO, inaccurate. I post occasionally, but nothing like I used to on bailiff posts for this exact reason. The battle to stay on topic with good advice has been well and truly lost.

Sorry Milo and Fizz, but you both already knew this.

[Fizz]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

it would seem that there may well be a fine that you knew nothing about. You mentioned that you had an initial contact in March and that you tried contacting the court and then a visit was made in April where the bailiff gained entry into your home.

absolutely correct, I contacted the collection and compliance centre who stated there were 2 fines. Marsons distress warrant listed 4 offence dates 2008/2010/2011. I moved address 2011. It possible Ive mislaid paperwork in move because Ive had a good look (and sort) through paperwork. And Im still unsure what the 2008 one was/is.

Did you call the court in March to make enquiries? It would seem that you would have had grounds to file a Statutory Declaration and if that had been done, the visit in April would not have needed to have been made.

unfortunately no, I had been given advice from another site that went in to all sorts (but at time thought was marvelous), which recommended letters of complaints rather than formal court paper submissions.

You say that the fine was issued at Stratford (London). I would hazard a guess that it is being administered now by the London Collection and Compliance Centre. Even though you have paid, you can STILL file a Statutory Declaration.

oh I'l get on to that now. I had made many many calls to them to obtain original warrant, very unsuccessfully.

On the matter of bailiff certification, it is a condition of the contract that bailiffs should gain a certificate within 6 months of joining the company.

not sure when he joined but I'm also sure he's left to work with another company. Would I be in my rights to request this?

This fine appears to have previously been with Philips and transferred to Marston Group after Philips had returned the warrant back to the court. I would assume that the reason for its return was because you had moved address and this is the reason WHY you should still be allowed to file a Statutory Declaration. Philips (now called Collectica) no longer have the contract for the London area and this would explain why the court then sent the warrant to Marston Group to enforce and I would assume that the case had been referred to their "tracing dept" who found a new address for you.

Ok, this sounds about right as I do have some very old paperwork from phillips and collectica and they were next on list to find out what they related to, they only have ref numbers, and very little else.

In almost all cases, a stat dec should be made "within 21 days of becoming aware" of the fine. The time for this to have been done was in March when first contacted by Marston. If you can establish that the delay in filing the stat dec was due to the difficulty in finding contact details for the court etc then this will likely be accepted

. This is very useful information. I had explained on bailiffs first visit, I would like to make enquiries as I wanted to double check dates of TV license as Id moved out and rented that house out from May 2011 (as I wasnt sure which date related to which offence), and also into details of hire car I had been renting from 2009 and for the life of me can not remember being pulled up in that car. Bailiff had originally said it was for failure to produce insurance, and cost of hire included insurance. So explained I wanted details from hire company. I now have dates of hire. I am still none the wiser as to why Id been fined for failure to produce identity!?

Had also checked register and bailiff was not listed.

Please post back if you require further information

1. My next step is Statutory Declaration then.
2. Request further details from marstons regarding bailiffs start and end date of employment?
3. Request SAR (which would cover point 2) from marston as their response has inaccuracies re: date of bailiffs certification and final figure paid

Thank you for your straightforward advice, as ever

[Milo]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

The "Failure to produce identity" is nearly always in relation to a speeding offence and where the person fails to confirm the name of the person driving.

All of this will be clearer when contact is made with the London Collection & Compliance Centre.

One the matter of submitting a stat dec AFTER payment you may care to note that I have in the office a letter addressed to be from HMCTS CONFIRMING that if a stat dec is accepted AFTER payment that a full refund will be given to include bailiff fees.

[bluebottle]

Re: Does a bailiff need to be certificated for HMCTS distress warrant?

The "Failure to produce identity" is nearly always in relation to a speeding offence and where the person fails to confirm the name of the person driving.

All of this will be clearer when contact is made with the London Collection & Compliance Centre.

One the matter of submitting a stat dec AFTER payment you may care to note that I have in the office a letter addressed to be from HMCTS CONFIRMING that if a stat dec is accepted AFTER payment that a full refund will be given to include bailiff fees.

Thank you for that very interesting and useful piece of information, Milo. I am going to be putting together a guide to HMCTS Enforcement for LB members. If it's okay with you, I'd like to include this information and credit it to yourself.