Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

[goggers]

Hi,
Reading through the forums for advice about how to deal with these people and I just want to make sure I know where I stand. I had a bailiff from rossendales call today and post a notice through my door for unpaid council tax from last year for the amount of £600. I thought I had actually paid this off so I contacted my council who confirmed I still owed £300. As I moved out of the property at end of January this year I have asked the council to advise of the the advised amount, they advised me I had to go with proof of current tenancy agreement as to when I moved into my current property, this I think is fair enough so have agreed to go in on Thursday with the paperwork etc.

The letter I recieved through the door states Bailiff Removal, stating they attended my property with the intention of removing goods, but there is no breakdown of costs incurred just balance of £600 must be paid in full. I contacted the bailiff to advise I was in contact with the council about the revised amount and that I would call him back on Thursday which he agreed to and was actually quite polite until I brought up the subject of charges. He told me they visited my old property back in march and was charged about £40 I think he said, from what I could get out of him they they visited today with the intention to remove goods and so have incurred charges in the region of £300 total, something like £188 for van charge and levy on my car.

Can they actually do this, maybe I have misunderstood about fee's etc but I thought they can only charge £24 for first visits, £24 for second then require a 3rd visit to charge a levy and give notice of intention to remove goods?

If indeed I am correct how do i fight these charges, if they remove my car i'm stuffed for things like getting home from work as I sometimes finish at 3am, there is no public transport at that time and taxi's would basically cost a fortune as work is about 40 min drive from where I live.

Many thanks.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

When you visit the council, tell them that Rossendales are (as usual) overcharging and ask the council to halt all enforcement action forthwith.

The response may be that it is "not possible" to halt enforcement, but that would - at best - be inaccurate. See Article 70 of the Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) Order 1996 (link)

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

When I spoke to the council today they refused to contact Rossendales to advise them to halt the enforcement and even when I have given my proof all they will do is advise Rossendales of the new amount owed to them. They told me they could not do anything about the charges from Rossendales as they where an external company, any charges brought by Rossendales was between me and them, they stated they do have a department that deals with bailiffs but they wont speak to any member of the public. Fighting these people seems to be a lost cause and in the end they win.

Damn i'm so worried, just seems they are a law unto themselves and nothing can be done about it, for a start I dont have £600, i expect the new amount owed to council will be around £200 mark, thats acceptable, as for what Rossendales want out of me, if they do take the car thats it, even if I do manage to get the car back it will be too late.

[charitynjw]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

As long as the LA's are getting extra revenue from bailiff activities, there will be a clear conflict of interest.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

When I spoke to the council today they refused to contact Rossendales to advise them to halt the enforcement and even when I have given my proof all they will do is advise Rossendales of the new amount owed to them. They told me they could not do anything about the charges from Rossendales as they were an external company, any charges brought by Rossendales was between me and them,

This is - of course - just arrogant nonsense.

they stated they do have a department that deals with bailiffs but they wont speak to any member of the public.

Won't they indeed?

Not even to your elected councillors or your MP?

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

I am just on my way to deliver the change of address proof etc to the local council, I have requested in writing that they recalculate the amount owed and take back the debt from Rossendales and also advised of the unlawful amount in charges Rossendales have added to the account. No idea whats gonna happen now, bailiff is apparently on his way round today to collect my car.

[charitynjw]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

Take a pre-written request to the LA requesting them to take back the debt & cease any enforcement.

If they refuse, get them to state this in writing, for the given reason, on the request, signed by whoever is in charge.

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

Well back from giving in the documents, I could'nt speak to anyone in person except for the reception lady that took my documents and scanned them. I then had to make a call to the council tax phone number and speak to someone on a phone at the town hall. I was told it will take up to 10 working days for them to look into my request and that they would contact the bailiffs (no time frame indicated for this even though i asked several times). The department that deal with enforcement, i was told, are a backroom department that wont speak to members of the public. I guess I just have to wait to see what happens, if the bailiffs do come round and try and take my car is there anything I can do to stop them. Obviously my car was on my drive when they visited so they got the details.

I was also looking at the letter I got from the bailiff, it mentions no levy on my car, just states an amount of £600, I assume then they have no right to charge me any fee's for levying my car or for a 'van' to collect goods, I dont even know what the charges are, I only know its around the £300 mark after the council telling me £300 is outstanding in council tax.

[bluebottle]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

In order to charge any removal costs, they must have a valid and lawful levy. No levy, no removal, no fee.

As far as vehicles go, they are not permitted to remove any vehicle which is used by the debtor in connection with their employment, business or vocation, or is on HP or leased, or is owned by an employer.

An example would be an Emergency Nurse Practitioner who owns their own car, but is required to use it to attend the scenes of Road Traffic Collisions or other major incidents, on an On Call basis, which would necessitate the vehicle having a magnetic lightbar/siren unit. Such a vehicle would be insured as Class One Business Use, not Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus commuting to and from a place of work. It would also be classed as an emergency vehicle if an ENP was On Call.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

Well back from giving in the documents, I could'nt speak to anyone in person except for the reception lady that took my documents and scanned them. I then had to make a call to the council tax phone number and speak to someone on a phone at the town hall. I was told it will take up to 10 working days for them to look into my request and that they would contact the bailiffs (no time frame indicated for this even though i asked several times). The department that deal with enforcement, i was told, are a backroom department that wont speak to members of the public.

This is plainly not good enough. Get onto your local, elected councillors and your MP (link) to get them to expedite the process.

I was also looking at the letter I got from the bailiff, it mentions no levy on my car, just states an amount of £600, I assume then they have no right to charge me any fee's for levying my car or for a 'van' to collect goods, I don't even know what the charges are, I only know its around the £300 mark after the council telling me £300 is outstanding in council tax.

This is also not satisfactory.

Send Rossendales letter 1 from here (link) for a breakdown of the fees they have tried to claim.

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

I have already sent Rossendales a letter requesting a breakdown of fee's they are trying to claim. What I cant seem to understand is if these bailiffs are constantly trying to claim charges that are illegal why do they continue to do it and why are these companies not been investigated for fraud. Surely this comes under a criminal act and should be investigated and license revoked.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

What I can't seem to understand is, if these bailiffs are constantly trying to claim charges that are illegal. why do they continue to do it and why are these companies not been investigated for fraud. Surely this comes under a criminal act and should be investigated and license revoked.

Probably the main reason why no investigation has ever been made into their antics is that it could be most embarrassing to the establishment. That was certainly part of the reason that the extent of 'phone hacking and alleged illegal payments to police officers was not properly investigated until the investigation was effectively forced on Scotland Yard.

Another reason would be the likely size of the investigation. Each bailiff is individually certificated, so each would have to be investigated and, unless one or more were willing to give evidence against the bailiff company, it would only be the bailiff who might suffer any ill effects as the result of their over-charging. Even if some bailiffs did present cogent and compelling evidence that they had been directed to overcharge, that would not prove that the directors of the company knew of that practice or had ordered it to be done.

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

So they basically have free reign to do whatever they please, while I could understand Rossendales claiming ignorance for their bailiffs overcharging they are still accountable for the actions of the bailiff. When I directly complain to them about the bailiff there answer is there is nothing they can do about it.

When I do eventually get a response from the council I would very much like to look into proper acknowledgement that indeed the bailiffs have acted unlawfully, I mean lets say my wife got home before me and seen that letter, that could of caused all sorts of problems, I take care of all the bills, she works much longer hours than I do so I pretty much take care of everything else.

At first I was scared and worried, thanks to all your support I seem to be making some headway but now I just feel angry and cheated.

[goggers]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

It would seem like the council arnt actually dealing with this themselves but an outsource group, I received this email today:

Dear (name),


This email is to confirm that a 14 day hold was placed with Rossendales on 18 June 2013.

The hold has been placed for you to provide proof that you are not liable. Please note that if a further hold is required that you will have to contact us to request this; otherwise the hold will automatically be removed after 14 days.

I trust this is in order however should you wish to discuss this further please feel free to contact us.

Yours Sincerley,

Natasha Awad
Enforcement Team
North Somerset Council

Tel: 01934 888144
Email: n-somersetctax@liberata.com

Further information can be found on the council's website

http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk

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[bluebottle]

Re: Rossendales Bailiff and Council tax advice needed

Yeah. Liberata. They don't seem to like people dealing directly with North Somerset Council for some reason. I wouldn't mind betting that if you did, Liberata would $hit themselves. It does make me wonder if the elected representatives know exactly what these outsourcing companies are actually doing in the name of the people of whatever area they represent.

The sooner the likes of Liberata, Capita and similar companies are removed from local government, the better.