Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

[SideShowBob]

Hi,

I am after some advice please. Bear with me as it's quite long.

We had around £2,500 of arrears with Portsmouth City Council at a previous address.

These arrears date from 2005, 2006 and 2007.

This was a period of time where I was in and out of work.

We moved out of the address in January 2007 as it was re-possessed, we then moved in with relatives and then moved into rented accommodation where I was receiving council tax benefit.

We have had no arrears since then and are completely up to date with our current council tax payments.

Over the last 2 years we had managed to pay back around £1,200

Our current arrears stand at £1,276

On Friday last week my wife found a letter hanging out of our letterbox which was a first notice from Ross and Roberts and they were claiming we owed them £1,536?

I phoned the Bailiff who said we could enter into an arrangement and he would call round.

Bailiff called and he asked to come inside, I refused.

He said that it was company policy that for them to enter into a payment agreement he would have to come inside and fill in "some paperwork" which turned out to be a walking possession order.

He had 3 liability orders and wanted to fill out a WPO for each.

I again refused and said that I would happily set-up an agreement but he wasn't coming inside. He again refused to try to enter into any agreement unless he had filled in his WPO.

I said I wouldn't agree to anything until I had sought independent legal advice. He scoffed at this and said trust him, why would he lie to me, plus if he came back we would incur further costs. I again reiterated to him I wasn't going to agree to anything until I had sought independent advice and there was no way I was letting him in.

He scurried away with his tail between his legs.

Today I opened the mailbox to find a document from the Bailiff, he had visited us the previous evening and pushed a Form 7 - through the letterbox. This was taking possession of the car parked in our driveway. This was unsigned and did not have any of the financial details filled in.

I called the council because I was a little peeved and they basically washed their hands of the whole thing, as far as they were concerned the matter had been passed to the Bailiffs and I would have to deal with them.

I asked the guy whether I could pay off what I owed in full to him there and then, he said I could pay off what I owed them but the Bailiff would still pursue me for their fees.

I then phoned the main office for the Bailiffs and asked them to provide a final amount as I wanted to pay in full. I also asked for a full breakdown of the amount plus costs. They were unable to provide this as the file had not yet been returned.

I then phoned the Bailiff direct and said I would like to pay off the full amount and could he provide me with a figure. He said he didn't have my file to hand but would work out the figure and let me know.

I have a few questions.

1. If the WPO is not signed by me is it still enforceable?

2. Although the council tax was in both mine and my wife's names the only name on the Bailiffs paperwork is mine. The car he has filled the WPO for is owned by my wife, she is the registered keeper and we also have a receipt in her name so I am assuming they have no legal right to the car.

3. Is there anyway I can pay the council direct rather than go through the Bailiffs and if I do are they likely to demand payment of their costs?

4. If they provide me with a breakdown of the final amount outstanding plus costs and I don't agree with them is there any way to appeal and if so would they still continue with enforcement action.

5. If he has 3 liability orders yet only makes one visit are they able to charge me 3 times, one for each liability order.

What I'm concerned about is they send me a breakdown of what I owe, I don't agree with the amount and whilst appealing this they return and remove my wife's car.

The thing is I am having to borrow the money from my parents and obviously don't want to have to pay more than I should.

Many thanks for reading and any advice would be appreciated.

EXTRA INFORMATION

The form he pushed through the door was a Form 7 - Notice of Seizure, is this different to a walking possession order?

Regards

Rob

[labman]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Hi,



I have a few questions.

1. If the WPO is not signed by me is it still enforceable? Yes. There are sites that would say it was an abandoned levy, but that is not the view of this site.

2. Although the council tax was in both mine and my wife's names the only name on the Bailiffs paperwork is mine. The car he has filled the WPO for is owned by my wife, she is the registered keeper and we also have a receipt in her name so I am assuming they have no legal right to the car. No, you assume incorrectly sorry. However, if there is any finance outstanding on the vehicle, they are not allowed to levy on it.

3. Is there anyway I can pay the council direct rather than go through the Bailiffs and if I do are they likely to demand payment of their costs? Absolutely. I would pay the council what you owe them, and get a receipt stating that you have discharged your debt to them in full, but realise you may still be liable for legitimate bailiff fees (try to get the word legitimate in there).

4. If they provide me with a breakdown of the final amount outstanding plus costs and I don't agree with them is there any way to appeal and if so would they still continue with enforcement action. If you have discharged the main debt to the council, the fees should, in theory, be straightforward. They are set out here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...67-Council-Tax

5. If he has 3 liability orders yet only makes one visit are they able to charge me 3 times, one for each liability order. No

What I'm concerned about is they send me a breakdown of what I owe, I don't agree with the amount and whilst appealing this they return and remove my wife's car. Can you lock the car in a garage? Move it a few streets away?

There is a letter, Number 1 from here which you should send to the bailiffs for a breakdown of their fees, but you should be able to work them out from the link above:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?34062-Useful-Letters

The thing is I am having to borrow the money from my parents and obviously don't want to have to pay more than I should.

Many thanks for reading and any advice would be appreciated.

Regards

Rob

I hope this helps you. :beagle:

For some reason the second link to letters won't work. If you go to the top of the page, click the bailiff tab, you'll see 'Sticky's' at the top of the section. One of these is called 'Useful Letters' and it is Letter One from there you need.

[SideShowBob]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Many thanks for your help.

Could someone please check my calculations.

For a debt of £1,276.36 the charges should be as follows:

First Visit: £24.50

Second Visit: £18.00

Levy on Car:

First £100 @ 24.5% = £24.50
Next £400 @ 4% = £16
Next £1,500 @ 2.5% which is 2.5% of £776.36 = £19.41

So total charges should not exceed £102.41

On the back of the letter they left it says they are allowed to charge 'reasonable fees' of £15 per day, is this correct?

I have 3 liability orders but they should only charge me a single visit fee, is that correct?

I have checked and the form he left was a Form 7 - Notice of Seizure, if a Bailiff leaves the premises without a Walking Possession Order then this is levy abandonment and the Notice of Seizure is invalid, am I right?

[labman]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Thanks for doing the maths SSB, I didn't feel like that at 12:30am I'm afraid. As for the £15 daily fee, I am not aware of anything which allows them to charge this. I would thus ask for chapter and verse from the regulations so we can check.

[ploddertom]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Many thanks for your help.

Could someone please check my calculations.

For a debt of £1,276.36 the charges should be as follows:

First Visit: £24.50

Second Visit: £18.00

Levy on Car:

First £100 @ 24.5% = £24.50
Next £400 @ 4% = £16
Next £1,500 @ 2.5% which is 2.5% of £776.36 = £19.41

So total charges should not exceed £102.41 - is rounded up to the next pound, therefore £103-00

On the back of the letter they left it says they are allowed to charge 'reasonable fees' of £15 per day, is this correct? For what?

I have 3 liability orders but they should only charge me a single visit fee, is that correct? Yes

I have checked and the form he left was a Form 7 - Notice of Seizure, if a Bailiff leaves the premises without a Walking Possession Order then this is levy abandonment and the Notice of Seizure is invalid, am I right? No

Is there anything that may make the levy invalid - owner, finance etc

[SideShowBob]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Hi,

Many thanks for your replies.

This has now progressed.

I managed to borrow the money to pay off the debt.

I paid the council £1,176.76 directly to them which is what we owed them which really pi**ed the bailiff off.

I then had to pay the bailiff charges which were £380?? this included a 5% card fee which I though they weren't allowed to charge.

Now I am in the process of trying to recover unfair charges.

I asked about the charges and he reeled off a load of charges including first visit fee, second visit fee, levy charge etc. etc. etc.

The car that the levy was placed on belongs to my wife and all the paperwork the bailiff had was in my name so I am assuming it was invalid.

I queried this with the bailiff and he said it didn't matter. He was of the opinion he could levy any car he wanted as long as it was parked on or near the property. It was at the point of removal we could contest ownership.

I shall be writing to the company to request a breakdown of fees and then pursue through the council and head of revenue, CEO etc.

Many thanks.

Rob

[ploddertom]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Did you put your request for the charges in writing? If not then send Letter 1 from http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

Most important believe nothing the Bailiff has told you.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Ross & Roberts and Council Tax

Most important believe nothing the Bailiff has told you.

Or what the "council" drones may tell you, as the council has a Crapita infestation.