Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

[fedup69]

New on here and after advice. Got a letter from Magistrates court 5 weeks ago saying I owed £200 as I had failed to pay as directed and if I did not pay within 10 days further action would be taken. This came totally out of the blue as I had had no previous correspondence on the matter. I constantly called the phone number on letter, it was one of those press 1 for this 2 for that then put on hold for 10 mins and finally cut off. At first I would try several times a day but always cut off. I went along to local magistrates court a couple of weeks later to see if they could shed some light on what it was for. (I dont mind paying for something I owe but as letter did not say I wasnt paying till I knew) As it was a different court that had issued it they could not tell me what it was for and I would have to keep trying the number or visit the issuing court in person. I received a bailliffs removal notice through door other day ( hand delivered ) saying they would take goods unless I paid £500. I made a point next day of going to issuing court and discovered fine was from a previous address back in 2007 and I had been fined for not having tax on a vehicle without sorn. I paid the £200 fine got a receipt and was told as bailliffs involved there will still be fees to pay them. Question is are the fees enforcable and can they still remove goods to get there fees. £300 to put a letter through my door seems absolute daylight robbery

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

A number of questions -

1. Did you receive a court summons?
2. Were your means examined?
3. Did you know about the fine?
4. Did you receive a Further Steps Notice (a legal requirement)?
5. Which firm of bailiff is involved?

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Thanks for replying Bluebottle
1. Did not receive a court summons unless it was at previous address without my knowledge.
2. No means tested
3. Didnt know about the fine till further Steps notice
4. Yes was first of me knowing about the fine.
5. Marstons

Any advice most welcome.

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Anyone shed any light? Reading through different posts seems to bring up different answers as to whether bailliff fees are enforcable?

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Thanks for replying Bluebottle
1. Did not receive a court summons unless it was at previous address without my knowledge.
2. No means tested
3. Didnt know about the fine till further Steps notice
4. Yes was first of me knowing about the fine.
5. Marstons

Any advice most welcome.

Strictly speaking, you should have sworn a Statutory Declaration at the Magistrates Court that imposed the fine and had the conviction set aside. As your means have not been examined, the fine should not have been imposed or enforced. This was confirmed by the High Court in the case of R -v- South Western Magistrates (on the application of Purnell).

Did the court tell you what offence the fine relates to, as this will reveal a lot.

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Here is the only correspondance I have received in the matter. First letter from the courts. I phoned them 2 to 3 times a day to find out what it was for
and always put in a queue then after 10 mins or so cut off. Went along to local magistrate court to find out what it was for and was told by girl at desk as it was not issued at that court would just have to keep trying the phone number till I got through. Was fed up trying and on finding hand delivered bailliff one, at wifes suggestion phoned on a different number to a different department and got put through. Finally found out fine was for no tax on a vehicle in 2007 at different address and that "They have tracked you down" as if I am tring to hide from something I didnt know anything about.On finding I did indeed owe this debt I paid the fine online to the courts same day and then received the 3rd letter stating I still owe the bailliff fees.

First Letter states " As you have failed to make a payment as directed..." never been directed as its first time I know about it.
Bailliff letter says I owe courts 507.50 and no fees incurred???
3rd Letter says even though fine paid still owe Marstons even though never even dealt with them.

Any ideas as need to know if they can take my vehicle for the fees. Loathe to pay it but if I have to then I will

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Magistrates Court Distress Warrants clearly state that certificated bailiffs may not take vehicles used in connection with a debtor's employment, business or vocation. This is Condition 2 on the warrant. Marstons know this, but will show you a document purporting to be a Distress Warrant which they have produced themselves which omits the conditions attached to MC Distress Warrants by HMCTS. I am in the process of establishing the legality of these DIY Distress Warrants, but my gut-feeling tells me that they are not worth the paper they are printed on, no matter what Marstons may claim to the contrary. As yet, they have produced no evidence to prove the legality of these DIY Distress Warrants. Hide you car so they cannot seize it, but if you use it in connection with your employment, business or vocation, any attempt to seize it would be ultra vires (outside the law).

Looking at the documents you have posted up, was the Marston's document hand-delivered or sent through the post?

[ploddertom]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

It sounds as if you you did not pay within the 10 days as stipulated on the Final Steps Notice which was dated 10 May 2013.

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

No I did not pay within the 10 days as I was not paying till I could ascertain what the bill was for so constantly phoned the Court to find out the reason for bill to be put in a queue for 10 mins at a time before being cut off. I personally think the bill should have told me what it was for as the call centre is that busy you are constantly cut off. Could only get through by playing dumb and phoning wrong department and being transferred. Don't know about anybody else but if someone demands money off me I don't blindly pay it till I know what its for.Yes bluebottle letter was not in an envelope so must have been hand delivered.

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

No I did not pay within the 10 days as I was not paying till I could ascertain what the bill was for so constantly phoned the Court to find out the reason for bill to be put in a queue for 10 mins at a time before being cut off. I personally think the bill should have told me what it was for as the call centre is that busy you are constantly cut off. Could only get through by playing dumb and phoning wrong department and being transferred. Don't know about anybody else but if someone demands money off me I don't blindly pay it till I know what its for.Yes bluebottle letter was not in an envelope so must have been hand delivered.

Did you receive any letter from Marstons prior to the handwritten notice? If not, their fees are questionable.

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

No Bluebottle first contact with Marstons was hand delivered.
Only contact I have had regarding matter was further steps notice from court but not knowing what it was for I called and called trying to find out reason for fine, even going into local magistrates which was no help.
A few weeks later hand delivered notice from Marstons which was the day I called court on different number and finally got to speak to someone. Once I knew what fine was for I paid the fine that day online.

Then receive second court letter saying fine paid but fees still due.

Is the warrant they issue at court for fine only, or fine plus fees?

Really stressed I get my vehicle taken for £300 but at same time I feel to demand money out of the blue from 6 years ago where I had no idea I had even been fined is a bit much considering there phone system is overloaded that you cant speak to them in time.

If I knew for certain my vehicle could not get touched to recover bailliff fees then would fight for my day in court to at least argue my case.

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

I would suggest you seek advice from a solicitor. Something has gone wrong here as you were not aware of the court hearing and fine and your means were not examined. it sounds like DVLA have done their usual which is to break the law and not inform you of any court hearing or fine. Strictly speaking, the fine and conviction should be set aside by means of a Statutory Declaration.

If your car is for use in connection with your employment, business or vocation, get a Statutory Declaration done immediately and sent a copy to Marstons. If they then try to seize your car, they get a spanking, but they will lie and say they can seize it. Don't believe them - nobody does. They have told too many untruths and it is now beginning to wear thin and cracks are appearing in their veneer of so-called ethical conduct and way of doing business.

[fedup69]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

Thanks Bluebottle. This totally grates with me.
My understanding was bailliffs are a last resort after other means of recovery have failed.
With me not knowing about fine I have been fast tracked to last resort without even having a chance to pay through the normal way though they will say I have had 6 years.
From first contact to bailliffs demands 6 weeks. Maybe I should have made more of a point in trying to get through to courts but when you are calling 2/3 times a day and cant get through and what with work commitments its not easy.

[bluebottle]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

You still need to speak to a solicitor. As I said in an earlier post, something has gone wrong somewhere along the line and I would not mind betting that the confirmation concerning examination of means, contained in the Judicial Review (JR) in R-v-South Western Magistrates, applies in your case as you were not in court when the fine was imposed and your means were not examined. Get and see a solicitor as soon as possible and get Marstons put back in their box and HMCTS challenged about their actions and that of DVLA. Do not rule out that DVLA may need to be challenged over their part in this matter.

[bizzybob]

Re: Fine paid in full to court. Are bailliff fees still enforcable?

DVLA are not squeaky clean, there is evidence that they have neglected to send summonses in the past to an alleged transgressor, and the first they know about it is when the neanderthal (no offence to Neanterthals per se) knuckledragger from marstons arrives demanding the entire GDP of England for their fees.