Car clamped by newlyn,

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Quick update here, after sending a mail/email I received this via email:

newlyn Reference:
Council Reference:

Dear

Arrears of: Road Traffic debt owed to London Borough of Harrow
In the Name of:
Total Outstanding: £-22.80 <----------WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!

We acknowledge receipt of your recent email received by this office.

We are currently in the process of investigating the circumstances surrounding this matter and will respond to you during the course of the following 10 days.


Yours Faithfully


newlyn PLC


I am yet to receive a further reply so a reminder has been sent today via 1st class rec and emailed.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

All,


I finally heard back, please see attachment, many thanks for your help thus far,

[bluebottle]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Some of those fees look decidedly dodgy. I would certainly be inclined to put them on notice to produce a copy of the invoice from the tow truck contractor, proving they were invoiced £90.00. No proof, no fee. Also, I very much doubt the relevant legislation allows them to charge for HPI Checks or Card Processing Fees.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Right, I am also confused as to the large difference in numbers for each reference...can someone please recommend/advise what to do next?

many thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Follow the lead given by Chris Graything (link) and report Newlyn to the Fraud Squad for false accounting?

I think the best thing to do is to let Ploddertom cast his experienced eye over the charges Newlyns has imposed and advise which charges are "not in accordance with legislation" and, accordingly, unlawful.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

First, read this ---> link

Then calculate the lawful fees that should have been charged.

The Regulations do not permit an HPI check to be charged to the offender.

There is no "Enforcement Fee" permitted under the Regulations (link)

The levy fee for the first offence seems to have been calculated on the basis of the above two, spurious fees being included; as neither should have been applied, the levy fee is grossly excessive.

The "reasonable expenses" permitted under Schedule 1, Section 8 (link) plainly cannot apply at the same time as a levy having been made.

There is no separate provision in the Regulations for a "Cancel Tow Fee".

There is no provision in the Regulations for the imposition of a card payment fee - which was charged twice although only one transaction occurred.

The visit fee for the second offence should have been £51.30, not £56.18 - and one might doubt it should even have been charged at all, as the visit was made at the same time as the first fine was enforced.

Pointing these "errors" out to Newlyn will probably not result in any further refund, whilst telling the saintly Mr Patel about them may not get a reply at all. However, Harrow Borough Council is responsible for the actions of the bailiffs it has seen fit to appoint, so I'd suggest you chase them for your money.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Thank you for your replies, I would like to contest Newlyn, on these facts as I believe they should refund. Could you please provide me a brief letter template that I could fill and send into them, I am in my late 20's and not experienced such before and struggling with how to put this all together to them.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Thank you for your replies, I would like to contest Newlyn, on these facts as I believe they should refund. Could you please provide me a brief letter template that I could fill and send into them, I am in my late 20's and not experienced such before and struggling with how to put this all together to them.

I'd be delighted to help but I'd prefer to wait until ploddertom has cast an eye over my posting. There may be something I'd forgotten or something I'd misstated.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

I'd be delighted to help but I'd prefer to wait until ploddertom has cast an eye over my posting. There may be something I'd forgotten or something I'd misstated.

Ok thank you. I intend to take this ALL the way and there to be a solid outcome so this doesnt happen to anyone else ever again, I will eargerly await ploddertoms response.

[ploddertom]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

I'd be delighted to help but I'd prefer to wait until ploddertom has cast an eye over my posting. There may be something I'd forgotten or something I'd misstated.

Been rather a busy day so not had time, hopefully will get to look at it tomorrow.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

Been rather a busy day so not had time, hopefully will get to look at it tomorrow.

No problem, if you could please.

Many thanks

[Milo]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

All,


I finally heard back, please see attachment, many thanks for your help thus far,

Unfortunately, I do not have time right now to look at this response but what I would say it the Harrow Council should be ashamed at themselves for allowing their bailiff provider to charge fees such as these.

Only 3 weeks ago, Eric Pickles released Guidance on the way in which local authorities should be addressing bailiffs etc and this guidance was as a result of the dreadful situation regarding HARROW COUNCIL and the way in which they have agreements with their bailiff providers to pay a KICKBACK to the council from all bailiff fees charged to debtors.

I was bemused at the Guidance as it related to the enforcement of council tax. However, the investigation had started following a speech at a Parking conference around 2 years ago where the Head of Parking confirmed that his bailiff providers (which would no doubt have included Newlyn) were required to pay a kick back to the council when enforcing an unpaid PCN. Quite why the new Guidance only relates to unpaid council tax is beyond me. I have recently written to the DCLG for clarification.

On the matter of the fees....I can only reconcile the letter fee of £11.20 to the statutory fee scale.

Frankly, the rest appear to be a most blatant disregard to the statutory fee scale and frankly, if this was my case, I would be taking this letter to Mr Bob Blackman the Harrow MP as he is the person who has been looking into the matter of "kickbacks" with the bailiff companies.

I will write more over the weekend.

[ploddertom]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

My Interpretation of their fees is as follows:

Original PCN Fees - not in doubt £172 x 2 = £344

Letter Fee - £11-20 x 2 - may only be charged if the letter was sent before a visit. I note from Post 7 you say no letter has been received. You should challenge this and put them to proof it was sent - it is no good them sayit was posted, minimum requirement is a Cerificate of Posting. If they cannot prove it then in my view the charge has to be removed.

HPI Fee - £20 - there is no Regulation that allows them to charge this fee, challenge the fee and again I believe it should be removed.

Enforcement Fee - £235 - apart from being very excessive there is no Regulation that allows for this particularly with regard to the way they say it is charged. Another one for removal.

Levy Fee - £69-10 - this should have been worked out on the aggregate of the 2 tickets + Letter Fees if applicable. According to my maths the Levy Fee on just the 2PCN alone is £36 and if they can prove the letter Fees then could be increased to £38 - please note rounding up to nearest £ is used. Again it looks as if you have been overcharged.

Schedule 1 Section 8 Fee - £35 - possibly correct but looking at the Regulation it says:
Where distress is withdrawn or where no sale takes place, reasonable fees, charges and expenses, subject to taxation under rule 11
To me that says "distress is withdrawn" - how can it have been withdrawn when you paid because of the threat of it, also it says "where no sale takes place" - was a sale ever arranged.
May be worth a challenge on those points.

Cancel Tow Fee - £90 - put them to strict proof of this which is a copy of the charge that was made to them. Minimum proof has to be sight of an invoice.

Card Fees - £1 x 2 - Ask them which Regulation allows them to charge this.

For PCN 2 - Visit Fee - £56-18 - may be looking at this the wrong way but as they have claimed a levy previously for both PCNs then this should not apply.

For those items where I have asked them to provide proof as to which Regulation allows the Fee you may have to remind hem that Day v Davies 1938 stated that only those fees allowed in the Regulations may be charged.

Hope this helps

[Fair-Parking]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

I'm sorry to say that this thread confuses me with comments on private security firms, so I will stick to the area of LB Harrow/Newlyn.

First there is little point in arguing about bailiffs fees when the real issue is the fact that no lawful warrant exists. No warrant, no enforcement - hence NO fees. That there is no legitmate warrant is as sure as the sun rose this morning. LB Harrow doesn't understand the method for preparing warrants and thus it never does so. A warrant was almost certainly authorised by the TEC, but that is not the same as LB Harrow preparing one.

This is the same council whose finance director Fern Silverio has (unlawfully) decided that bailiff contracts should have a clause inserted that require them to forward LB Harrow 10% of what they collect - with all the ramifications that conjures up. The errant Silverio seems to have no idea that parking penalty charges are not classed as revenue. PCNs are about traffic management and not income no matter how much councils have corrupted this for their own unlawful financial gains.

My warning to the OP is that Newlyn WILL sell this car if they are not paid and they will keep all the money. One favourite source of disposal is A1 Environmental from Waltham Cross who far from taking a car to legitimate car auction will - in the parlance of the motor trade - knock 'em out on ebay. It will be an eye opening experience to visit their site and to see just how cheap these 'ex council cars' (A1's expression - not mine) are. In short A1/Newlyn couldn't give a monkey's about the owners.

My advice to the OP is to pay whatever it takes to get the car back and then take measure to retrieve the amount extracted.

Don't engage in conversation with Newlyn more than you have to. The letter displayed is classic Newlyn 'smoke and mirrors'. Many of the excuses in this one are unique. If a 'warrant' does appear it will have been printed by Newlyn on its commercially obtained software. Newlyn has no legal authority to print one. This is smoke and mirrors 2.

[michaelg]

Re: Car clamped by newlyn,

My Interpretation of their fees is as follows:

Original PCN Fees - not in doubt £172 x 2 = £344

Letter Fee - £11-20 x 2 - may only be charged if the letter was sent before a visit. I note from Post 7 you say no letter has been received. You should challenge this and put them to proof it was sent - it is no good them sayit was posted, minimum requirement is a Cerificate of Posting. If they cannot prove it then in my view the charge has to be removed.

HPI Fee - £20 - there is no Regulation that allows them to charge this fee, challenge the fee and again I believe it should be removed.

Enforcement Fee - £235 - apart from being very excessive there is no Regulation that allows for this particularly with regard to the way they say it is charged. Another one for removal.

Levy Fee - £69-10 - this should have been worked out on the aggregate of the 2 tickets + Letter Fees if applicable. According to my maths the Levy Fee on just the 2PCN alone is £36 and if they can prove the letter Fees then could be increased to £38 - please note rounding up to nearest £ is used. Again it looks as if you have been overcharged.

Schedule 1 Section 8 Fee - £35 - possibly correct but looking at the Regulation it says:
Where distress is withdrawn or where no sale takes place, reasonable fees, charges and expenses, subject to taxation under rule 11
To me that says "distress is withdrawn" - how can it have been withdrawn when you paid because of the threat of it, also it says "where no sale takes place" - was a sale ever arranged.
May be worth a challenge on those points.

Cancel Tow Fee - £90 - put them to strict proof of this which is a copy of the charge that was made to them. Minimum proof has to be sight of an invoice.

Card Fees - £1 x 2 - Ask them which Regulation allows them to charge this.

For PCN 2 - Visit Fee - £56-18 - may be looking at this the wrong way but as they have claimed a levy previously for both PCNs then this should not apply.

For those items where I have asked them to provide proof as to which Regulation allows the Fee you may have to remind hem that Day v Davies 1938 stated that only those fees allowed in the Regulations may be charged.

Hope this helps

Very much so yes, so thank you. I am i the process of writing a letter, when I have finished will you please proof read?

Many thanks again.