Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

[Milly29]

Hi again everyone. I am again in need of some advice regarding Bristow & Sutor!

So, I spoke to my local council regarding the behaviour of B&S. I explained to them that I had no intention of having any dealings whatsoever with them and would instead be making regular weekly payments directly to the council. (which i have been doing). I did ask if the council would return the debt given the reasons I had previously mentioned, ie: threats, unlawful charges, unreasonable behaviour etc etc. The lady that I spoke to said that she personally couldnt call for the debt to be returned but would make a request to the relevant department. She also told me that they (the council) would not refuse payments from me and that B&S would probably return the debt as un recoverable anyway given that I have been refusing to deal with them.

I had heard nothing at all from B&S for more than 4 weeks ....... until My OH was about to leave the house last week, 23.05.13 and found a B&S bailiff snooping around his car. The bailiff scarpered and only returned when we had left to take my children to school, when they posted something through the door. It was a "notice of seizure of goods" with an inventory attached listing my OHs car. No clamp was placed on the vehicle and nothing was signed by myself or my OH. My OH is self-employed (but currently out of work and receiving JSA) but uses the vehicle only for work. He cannot work without it and with a new contract due to start soon, it will leave us well in the muck without it! Its an old car and I would say is probably only worth about a third of the entire debt!!
I phoned the council immediately and explained what had happened. I was told there was a note on my file about my complaints about B&S but they were "unable" to recall the debt. I, of course, argued this. After a lot of ranting and complaining from myself, i was told that the council would contact B&S and tell them that they had to accept weekly payments of £5.00 to be reviewed in 3 months, at which time it would be between myself and B&S to change the arrangements and the council would not get involved again. Helpful as ever!!!

My query is...... am i right in thinking that B&S should not levy on a vehicle that is used solely for work? And that they also cannot levy on goods that are clearly worth a lot less than the debt?? Has the bailiff abandoned his levy given that no wheel clamp was placed on the vehicle and no signature was given by us? Im worried because I dont want to pay them, (I intend to continue paying the council). The first payment is due to B&S tomorrow and im worried if I dont pay them they can remove the car but if i do pay them, i am entering into an agreement with them and the levy will stand?? Please help!! thankyou

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Did you send the letter (suggested by Brother Bluebottle) in post # 27 on page 2 of your earlier thread? (link)

If you did not, the council drones might not accept that you are vulnerable - so send something like that letter today, addressed to the council's Head of Revenues or whatever his job title might be.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

If the reply from the council is the usual twaddle that they cannot stop any enforcement action, remind them of Article 70 (link) of the Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) Order 1996.

[Milly29]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Thankyou Cleverclogs .No, stupidly I didnt send the letter........only because I had a telephone conversation with the council that was the same as the letter and soI didnt think the letter would be neccessary. I shall do it now.
Do you know where I stand with regards to the levy on the car?? I was planning to ring the council today and ask them to contact B&S and ask them to put the case on hold for 14 days whilst I begin looking into further action, ie: having the debt returned, making a formal complaint about B&S to themselves and to the council. The council may not comply with this which is why im anxious to know my rights where the levy is concerned. If i do not pay B&S tomorrows installment, it is likely they will visit. From what I have read it seems they may well have abandoned their levy? Plus, the car shouldnt have been levied on in the 1st place given that it is used for work in self employment. If im right about these things, surely by paying them the installment tomorrow I would be seen to be entering into an agreement with them and therefore they would deem the levy as standing???

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Do not rely on them having abandoned the levy, as the vehicle was listed on the Form of Seizure.

It may be difficult to prove that the car is essential for work, in the way that a van fitted with tool racks could be.

As for having entered into an agreement with those parasites, you already did that when you agreed to pay them in instalments. It was wrong of them to have levied distress when an instalment plan had previously been agreed and their only reason for having done so was to garner fees thereby.

[bizzybob]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Never rely on a phone call, email,backed up by snail mail letter is the only way

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

For what reason would your OH need his car for employment? How is the car insured - SD&P or Business? Is he the sole driver? What is the value of the vehicle? How much do you owe in CT?

[Milly29]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

My OH is a self employed subcontractor in the construction industry.....he has to travel all over the country (wherever the work is) and the terms are that he has to have his own vehicle to do so. It is insured SD&P and yes, he is the sole driver. You can see by looking at the car that it is not a family car......its full of work tools. The levy was made prior to the council telling B&S to accept payment of £5.00 per week. The debt at present is £639.00.........the car is worth only around £200.00 if that! Am I wrong in thinking that the levy is invalid?? I have recieved confirmation of the agreement from B&S today and it doesnt mention that any goods are levvied, just that if we default it may result in goods being seized. I thought that as they had no signature and they didnt clamp the vehicle that it became invalid?? Im unsure what to do?? Do I pay them tomorrow??

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

As it appears the buggers are trying to engineer a default, I suggest you keep to the payment agreement with B&S.

But also take up the matter of the car being seized, with the Head of Revenues at the council and with your local, elected councillor(s).

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

My OH is a self employed subcontractor in the construction industry.....he has to travel all over the country (wherever the work is) and the terms are that he has to have his own vehicle to do so. It is insured SD&P and yes, he is the sole driver. You can see by looking at the car that it is not a family car......its full of work tools. The levy was made prior to the council telling B&S to accept payment of £5.00 per week. The debt at present is £639.00.........the car is worth only around £200.00 if that! Am I wrong in thinking that the levy is invalid?? I have recieved confirmation of the agreement from B&S today and it doesnt mention that any goods are levvied, just that if we default it may result in goods being seized. I thought that as they had no signature and they didnt clamp the vehicle that it became invalid?? Im unsure what to do?? Do I pay them tomorrow??

The car is at risk of removal although you should be permitted to remove the tools from it. Seizure of vehicles is not very clear cut but to claim exemption as a work tool it should be any combination of the following:
a - signwritten
b - insured for business purposes
c - the debtor must be the sole driver
If it is purely used for travelling from job to job then regardless of distances that is insufficient as it can be held that alternative means of travel are available and cost of this is not taken into consideration. You say tools are in the vehicle - are these tools that would be too large and/or cumbersome to take by any other means, if so then possibly this could form another reason for exemption.

A levy does not have to be signed for it to be valid - all this does is allow the Bailiff to make another Fee chargeable.

Going on to the fees they have charged you. It seems to me as if the Bailiff has made this levy purely to gain a financial advantage for himself & his company as the car if taken for disposal at auction would realise little more than scrap value. In my view the Bailiff has only made this levy because he has been denied entry to your home and hope you do not realise that it is of little worth. Items seized by a Bailiff and if remeoved to be sold at auction must:
i - cover all the Bailiffs Fees & charges
ii - cover the costs of removal & storage
iii - cover the costs of the auction
iv - cover the Auctioneers Fees & charges
v - make a contribution to the debt owing.

In this case the sale of the vehicle would not even cover the removal costs. The levy must be challenged, the Bailiffs will of course deny any of this so any letter about it should be directed to the Council with a copy to the Bailiffs. The Council will probably pass it to the Bailiffs to deal with anyway and come back and back them up. In any complaint comment should be made about LGO Report http://www.lgo.org.uk/complaint-outc...il-10-007-469/ which although of a very low value item being seized is similar to your own.

The Header H fee you are correct in your thought this should not have been charged as no goods were removed and although again they will argue otherwise you must turn to what the relevant Regulation says:

"Where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender in the circumstances referred to in Regulation 45(4);
Regulation 45 (4) then states:
(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor."

What this means:
The Bailiff seizes your goods and as you fail to pay the monies outstanding he reattends and removes the said goods and a sale is arranged for them. In the meantime you then pay the outstanding monies including all fees. The sale then has to be cancelled and you are then free to collect the goods.

As for payments then this has to be your own choice but I think for now you should go along with it while you sort the rest of this out. This then prevents anyone turning up & increasing pressure on yourselves. Once you have some answers then that will be the time to review the situation.

[Milly29]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Thankyou Ploddertom, you're advice is a huge help to me. Ok, so given what I have heard from yourself and following my phone conversation with the council today I shall tomorrow make the agreed payment to Bristow & Sutor. I will then make a formal complaint to the council and to B&S and I will cite all the reasons as mentioned previously. I am going to have to do as much as I can to have the debt returned to the council. I will not "bargain" with those ******** unless I absolutely have to. They truly sicken me. How do they get away with it???

Who, at my local council, do I need to complain to? I have tried doing this before by e-mailing and writing to the debt recovery department but they didnt even bother responding! They just told me, the next time I called, that they were "unable" to return the debt. Thankyou once again for your help and advice. Much appreciated

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Mark any letter & the envlope it goes in as "Formal Complaint" and adress it to the Council CEO.

[bizzybob]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Copy it to the Elected Leader, your local elected council member, and MP, they all may as well know what incorrigible rogues their appointed agents Bristols & Stupid are.

[Milly29]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

Thankyou everyone for the advice. I dont quite know where to start but I intend to get on the case today. I thought the council were supposed to use bailiffs as a last resort but in my case that wasnt true. I contacted the council before I had even missed a payment, told them that I was unable to pay the following months council tax due to my OH not earning any money at all in December but being unable to claim JSA and I asked them if I could make arrangements with themselves before it even went to court. They completely dismissed it and said if I missed the payment and didnt pay the whole balance in full it would go to B&S. That is despite all the previous complaints I had made regarding B&S and their threats, abuse, lies and underhand tactics. They make it impossible!!
When they levvied the car, they had no signature and no clamp and yet they have charged me a (Head H) redemption of goods fee!!!!!! Im disgusted with the way they behave. All I wanna do is pay what I owe but first Im made to line the pockets of them scumbags!!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and Sutor.......again!!!!!

I thought the council were supposed to use bailiffs as a last resort but in my case that wasn't true.

I do not know if this applies in your case, but there are times when it may be more profitable to a council to go straight to the use of bailiffs. Please see the attached file.