Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

[bizzybob]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

That would not come as any surprise to me whatsoever, CC.

Nor me, this Capita, Equita, Ross 'n Robbers stitch up, is contrary to best practice, and corrosive to natural justice.

[cazindevon]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

I think it is because the council can only have a maximum of 2 AEO's running at the same time. The ones in force now are for arrears from a few years ago. So to recover the rest of the arrears they have instructed the bailiffs to recover the money. It just seems like we are forever paying off arrears at too high an amount for us to possibly keep up to date.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

I have just checked the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) and there is nothing within its provisions that prevents a local authority having more than two AEO or ABOs in force simultaneously. Whoever told you otherwise is indulging in Lower Gastro-Intestinal Ventriloquism. Although a local authority can legitimately use distress as a means of collecting CT arrears, the question that arises in your case is whether it is a proportionate or proper means of enforcement IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. Certainly, the actions of the bailiff with the intelligence of a small-brained animal raises serious questions as to the lawfulness of his actions and whether the levy/seizure of the car is, indeed, lawful or not.

There is a provision under Regulation 46, Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) which allows CT debtors to appeal to the Magistrates Court that issued the LO as to the lawfulness of the local authority's actions and that of their enforcement contractor. I am attaching an electronic copy of said legislation. I would strongly advise you to seek competent legal advice from your local Law Centre or Community Legal Service before considering a Regulation 46 appeal or any other form of action to abate the council or bailiff's actions. The Local Government Ombudsman is also an avenue you can go down if necessary.

[cazindevon]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

Right! Update as to what is going on.

This morning we had yet another visit from Ross and Roberts.
2 forms were left in the porch.
1 is Notice of Intended Removal of Goods.
As you have failed to respond to our previous visits, please be advised that we intend to return to your premises on 10/4/13[pm] to effect full removal of goods to satisfy the outstanding debt of £1179.81
We hold your signed Walking Possession Agreement which authorizes us to re-enter your property at any time whilst the distraint is in force. The assistance of a Lock-Smith and the Police will be used if necessary.
To avoid this action taking place you must contact the Enforcement Officer stated below within 24 hours from the date of this letter.

2nd form is a Default Removal Notice.
As you have failed to respond to our requests for payment we would remind you once again that we will return WITHOUT NOTICE with a view to remove goods and chattels which will be sold at public auction to satisfy the outstanding debt.
Today's visit fee £173.00
Total outstanding 1179.81

The bailiff has the right to peaceably enter your premises and remove goods- even in your absence.


The car he levied is not even worth the bailiff fees! It is the only item listed on the form 7 he bullied my partner into signing when he would not allow us to get out of our driveway to collect our 6yr son from school. He did not enter the house at any time.
Can anyone advise me what to do at this stage please?

[bluebottle]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

Contact your local Law Centre or Community Legal Service. This bailiff, Ross & Roberts and the local authority are seriously out of order. You may have to take the local authority to court under Regulation 46, Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) as the bailiff's actions in respect of the car cannot be defended in any way. He used coercion in order to seize goods. It must be done peaceably and not in the manner he did so. It is the equivalent of him saying, "If you don't let me into your home to levy, I'm going to kick you senseless until you do." It is coercion and it is illegal coercion.

The other matter that comes to mind is whether Ross & Roberts have made every attempt to obstruct you from paying off the alleged arrears by making it difficult, if not, impossible to do so. This is a practice which, strictly speaking, is illegal. It is a form of fraud as they will charge fees on top of what legislation permits and they are seeking to obtain these by misrepresenting the situation.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

You say the levy opn the car was made 6 months ago. Since that time have you made any payments - do not include any of AoE payments - and how many times has the Bailiff visited since then - even better if you can list the dates?

[ploddertom]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

Do you have a reference number for the debt the Bailiff is collecting on? Is it the same or different to those the Council has an AoE against?

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[bizzybob]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

Might be worth adding to ploddertom's list:

9 - are any of the Liability Orders passed to the bailiff subject to an Attachment Of Earnings Order?

If they have sent any of te LOs subject to AOE, they have buggered themselves up somewhat.

[cazindevon]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

The day the bailiff levied the car was 18/9/12. He wanted £150 arrangement fee to be paid on 20/9/12
We went to the council the next day with all the money we could scrape together but all they did was pay off the bailiff fees with what we gave them and set up an arrangement of £40 per week to be paid by us direct to the council. We agreed to this arrangement because it was the only way to stop the bailiffs.
Of course a few weeks later, we found ourselves unable to keep up the unreasonable payment plan and defaulted.
25/1/13 Default notice from bailiff stating our arrangement plan was now VOID.
13/3/13 Default removal notice from bailiff.
03/04/13 Default removal notice from bailiff
09/04/13 Notice of intended removal of goods. Default Removal Notice.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

In my view the Bailiff abandoned his levy - they will argue otherwise. My reasons for this is that the Bailiff originally levied on your vehicle and you signed a Walking Possession Agreement to either pay in full or by regular instalments, you had 5 days in which to do this. Instead you went to the Council, they rightly accepted payments from you and made arrangements to pay weekly. At some time you defaulted an payment and the Bailiff sent you a letter - by post or by hand? informing you the arrangement was now finished. At this stage he should have attended or removed your goods - instead he waits another 2 months to send yet another letter - no doubt increasing his fee for doing so. By now he must relinquish any power over the goods he has levied on.

Now he insists he will return tomorrow using his Walking Possession to gain or force entry. 2 things wrong with that -
1 - as said above it is my opinion he has abandoned his levy
2 - he never ever gained peaceful entry in the first place so he certainly cannot entertain any vision of forcing entry

[bizzybob]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

The day the bailiff levied the car was 18/9/12. He wanted £150 arrangement fee to be paid on 20/9/12 WTF no such animal he wants an arrangement fee the same as a dodgy loanshark?
We went to the council the next day with all the money we could scrape together but all they did was pay off the bailiff fees with what we gave them and set up an arrangement of £40 per week to be paid by us direct to the council. We agreed to this arrangement because it was the only way to stop the bailiffs.
Of course a few weeks later, we found ourselves unable to keep up the unreasonable payment plan and defaulted.
25/1/13 Default notice from bailiff stating our arrangement plan was now VOID.
13/3/13 Default removal notice from bailiff.
03/04/13 Default removal notice from bailiff
09/04/13 Notice of intended removal of goods. Default Removal Notice.

Did he put the arrangement fee in any list of charges? maybe complaint to OFT on Credit Fitness.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

The day the bailiff levied the car was 18/9/12. He wanted £150 arrangement fee to be paid on 20/9/12

Which "arrangement fee" is not permitted under law. Please see the attached file.

We went to the council the next day with all the money we could scrape together but all they did was pay off the bailiff fees with what we gave them

Which is, in my opinion, the inevitable results of a council tax department being in collusion with the bailiff company or even outsourced to a sister company. The council's revenues (and hence every CT payer in the borough) is effectively being cheated by payments made to satisfy inflated, spurious and fanciful fees.

Your local (elected) councillors should be informed about this, as well as the leader (Fuhrer?) of the majority party and the leader of the opposition, Official Resistance or People's Liberation Front.

09/04/13 Notice of intended removal of goods. Default Removal Notice.

Unless he can prove that you tuck your motor-car up at night in the spare bedroom, he does not have any right of entry to your domicile.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

I think this is a case that needs to be reported to the police, as well as referred to the Local Government Ombudsman. We have clear evidence of unlawful charges, what can only be described as behaviour tantamount to carjacking and now a bailiff trying to charge an arrangement fee which, as CC points out, is not provided for in law.

[cazindevon]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

So basically, when the scrotbag turns up tomorrow, what can he do if we refuse to let him in and the car he levied is no longer here??

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bullied by Ross and Roberts bailiff

He can:

1. Huff
2. Puff
3. Threaten to blow your house down
4. Say he's going to get a locksmith and/or the plods

And that's really about all he can do, unless he notices the smears of rubber from the tyres left when you squeezed the car into the hallway.