Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

[lw72]

Hi

First time poster, so would be greatful for any advice on this as I have no previous experience in dealing with these issues.

Background Info:

I fell into arrears with my council tax payments (3 months).
I never received any final demand letter from the council
The first I was aware the balance had been referred to a Bailiff was when someone came knocking on my door(which I didn't answer)
They left a letter saying I owed money and to contact them(bristowSutor)
The following day, all monies owed to the council were PAID IN FULL
A week later I received a letter from B&S stating I owe £292.50 fees, which for one visit I find extortionate!
I believe the breakdown of fees is as follows:

• Van/Abortive removal fee - £230
• Redemtion Fee - £24.50
• Levy Fee - £38.00

I would be very grateful if one of the experts on this forum could advise me where I stand with regards to these fees.
Obviously if any of the above are legally owning, I would be happy to clear the debt, but cannot believe I have been charged £230 for a van on the baliffs first visit.

The letter I received said I needed to pay the balance by 7th March or would incur additional charges, so If you could provide advice as quickly as possible I'd be very thankful.


Thanks in advance

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Did the bailiffs have a levy, did they seize a vehicle perhaps? Did they leave a Notice Of Seizure listing goods, or a car, at the time of the only visit?
as to these fees, No levy then all that they can have is £24.50 for a visit fee
Nothing in the regulations about an Abortive Removal fee, a redemption fee is only payable if items have been removed for sale, and the debt is then paid to redeem them, no levy, cannot charge a levy fee.

Looks like a case of Frontloading, which is not lawful, as they are charging for work not done, this is known as fraud.

I'm sure other Beagles will help further

Contact the council and ask for a written statement showing the account is clear, and put Bristols and Stupid on strict proof of fees by sending letter 1 from here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

[lw72]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Hi Bizzybob,

Thanks for the quick response!

I'm not sure what a levy is.
They didn't seize a vehicle, nor did they leave a notice of Seizure.
The letter in they posted through the door was as follows:

Once Again our baliff removal team have attended today to remove your goods for sale by public auction.
we suggest you contact us immediately on : xxxxx

If you ignore this notice then you may risk the goods being removed in your absence, the costs of such actions would be substantial.

Bailiff name, number and time of visit.

As I mentioned in the OP, this is the first correspondence we have recieved from them.

I contacted the council today and they confirmed there is now no outstanding debt to them.
The recent letter from b&s states that any payment made shall clear baliffs fees first, even though I paid the council, and therefore there fees remain enforceable by seizure and sale of goods under regulation52(4) of the CT(admin and enforcement) Regulations 1992.

Would I have to post the letter or could I email it, as I'm concious of the deadline of thursday they gave me(or need I not be?)

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

They have no power of entry, and the remove goods in your absence refers to things outside, so any high value garden furniture should be locked securely away. the favourite item to levy, is a car, so keep it away from your premises. In the absence of a levy, the most they can have is £24.50 for a visit fee

Email the letter backed up by one in the post.

Also have a read of this:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...67-Council-Tax

[bluebottle]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Apart from the Visit Fee of £24.50, as Bizzybob says, the other fees are "upfront fees" which are illegal. It is highly likely they are fees for work not carried out, which is also illegal. The offence is Fraud by False Misrepresentation, contrary to Section 2, Fraud Act 2006. This sort of conduct raises questions as to a bailiff's fitness to act as a bailiff.

[lw72]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Thanks for the bluebottle & Bizzybob,

I've emailed a letter off to b&s and will also send one recorded delivery in the morning.
I'll post their reply as soon as I have anything back.

With regard to the "upfront charges", if they state that they did turn up in a van, hence the Van/Abortive removal fee of £230.00 (which I fully expect them to come back with), am I legally within my rights then to quote False Misrepresentation, contrary to Section 2, Fraud Act 2006?

Am I correct in assuming even though they did turn up with a van, I should have received some notification before they can remove any goods and (more importantly with regard to their fees) charge for the van?

[bluebottle]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

They can only charge for a van if they are attending to remove goods they have previously levied on. If they have not levied on any goods, the removal/van fee is illegal. If they claim the van fee is legitimate, ask them to produce proof of a valid levy and Notice of Seizure (also known as a Form 7). If they are unable to produce this, the fees are fraudulent. If they send one that looks as if it has been made up, it is, simply, another nail in the bailiff's and B & S's coffin. If you need to write another letter, come back onto this thread. There is a way of accusing someone of Fraud without actually accusing them, if you known what I mean.

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Thanks for the bluebottle & Bizzybob,

I've emailed a letter off to b&s and will also send one recorded delivery in the morning.
I'll post their reply as soon as I have anything back.

With regard to the "upfront charges", if they state that they did turn up in a van, hence the Van/Abortive removal fee of £230.00 (which I fully expect them to come back with), am I legally within my rights then to quote False Misrepresentation, contrary to Section 2, Fraud Act 2006?

Am I correct in assuming even though they did turn up with a van, I should have received some notification before they can remove any goods and (more importantly with regard to their fees) charge for the van?

They would need to turn up with a van, that could remove the goods, so their average small van say a Berlingo would not be suitable to tow a car away, or take furniture, , as bluebottle has confirmed they are likely frontloading, and they are only entitled to £24.50. The redemption fee is void without a levy and goods removed, and no such thing as an Abortive removal fee. If Bristols & Stupid return and get lippy, do not let them in, and film theitr visit even using a mobile phone to captuire any outrageous threats and lies, to use in the Formal Complaint to the council CEO, you will then be sending regarding the unlawful actions of their appointed agent, Bristols and Stupid, for which they, the council are wholly liable.

[labman]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

You need to be careful here. Phone the council and ask what the balance is on the account. Bailiff fees for CT collection are taken up front, before the council get their money, so you may find that they have taken all the money you paid to the council towards their fabricated fees, or you may find that they've taken £24.50 (their legitimate fees), leaving your CT account still in arrears, and thus the bailiffs with a live instruction to collect arrears.

I would check, and if necessary pay the legitimate £24.50 to the bailiffs stating that as they visited only once, you believe this is all they are entitled to.

If they still claim the levy fee and the van fee, ask them for a copy of the goods on which they levied, and WHY they had a van.

The most important thing is to cover yourself regarding the £24.50 legitimate amount outstanding.

[lw72]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Thanks Labman,
I went to see a council advisor yesterday and they told me the account balance was £0. I suspect this is because I paid the council directly.
It was the council who provided me with the breakdown of what b&s 'think' is owed to them, and the council basically washed their hands of it, and advised us to take the matter up with b&s directly.

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Thanks Labman,
I went to see a council advisor yesterday and they told me the account balance was £0. I suspect this is because I paid the council directly.
It was the council who provided me with the breakdown of what b&s 'think' is owed to them, and the council basically washed their hands of it, and advised us to take the matter up with b&s directly.

Tell B&S that as they appear to be preloading fees, without any evidence, of doing the work notice of seizure, no goods removed to redeem, as they have made one visit, you are paying them £24.50 for the legitimate visit fee. As the council says the Lo is settled they cannot enforce now for their fees alone. But other beagles will also assist you. I would be worth sending them Letter 1 as above, to put them on strict proof as to what fees were applied and when, give them rope....

[CleverClogs]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Regardless of what the council staff might wish, they are responsible for the antics of the oafs from Bristols & Hooters.

They should recall the case immediately if they wish to avoid unpleasantness and additional costs.

To cover yourself, pay the council £42.50 - the most that may lawfully be charged for two (or more) bailiff visits. At worst, you'll have paid the legitimate fees of the (illegitimate?) bailiff; at best, you'll have paid something towards your CT for this year.

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Regardless of what the council staff might wish, they are responsible for the antics of the oafs from Bristols & Hooters.

They should recall the case immediately if they wish to avoid unpleasantness and additional costs.

Absolutely spot on, the council remain wholly liable for any unlawful fees and charges applied by their agent Bristol & Stupor, so it will be to the Head of revenues, council CEO, Elected leader, and copied to your MP that the Formal Complaint goes regarding the unlawful charges applied by their agent, if Busted & stupid refuse the legitimate £24.50 visit fee, the rest is out of Enid Blyton's Bailiffs And Miscellaneous Imaginary Fee Guide

[lw72]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Once again, thanks everyone for assistance.

I sent letter 1 by email last night, but given that the letter they sent me dated 28th Feb demanded payment within 7 days, should I pay the £24.50 or £42.50 today before they have given me a response to the letter? If so, with my understanding from the breakdown of fees the council provided me with yesterday:

• Van/Abortive removal fee - £230
• Redemtion Fee - £24.50
• Levy Fee - £38.00

I assume It's £24.50 I need to clear, not £42.50?
Additionally when they did visit, according to a neighbour they have taken car registration details. I'm concerned that they may come back and try and take the car. Where do I stand on this.
Thanks all

[bizzybob]

Re: Baliff Van Abortive Move Fee

Once again, thanks everyone for assistance.

I sent letter 1 by email last night, but given that the letter they sent me dated 28th Feb demanded payment within 7 days, should I pay the £24.50 or £42.50 today before they have given me a response to the letter? If so, with my understanding from the breakdown of fees the council provided me with yesterday:

• Van/Abortive removal fee - £230
• Redemtion Fee - £24.50
• Levy Fee - £38.00

I assume It's £24.50 I need to clear, not £42.50?
Additionally when they did visit, according to a neighbour they have taken car registration details. I'm concerned that they may come back and try and take the car. Where do I stand on this.
Thanks all

They may now claim to have levied your car, to justify the fees, but if they did not leave a Notice Of seizure AT THE TIME OF THE LEVY, which is required by law, this can be challenged. A retrospective levy on a car, not necessarily your car, it can be a random one parked in the street, is a common bailiff (mal)practice