HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

[bizzybob]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Great words of caution from ploddertom, Form 4 is not a process to engage lightly unless the bailiff behaviour is completely beyond the pale.

[ODC]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

You may want to try and bill them for the taxis you had to use while the vehicle was unlawfully clamped

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

I have been reading up on clamping and wondered if anyone was aware of the SIA approved 'clampers' list? (http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk)
Rundles and the actual bailiff are not on this list, would this mean Mr Bailiff is not allowed to go on to a private estate and clamp cars anyway?

Reading a bit further - link - suggests that would only apply to Ulster.

[ODC]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Reading a bit further - link - suggests that would only apply to Ulster.

Fortunately the good folk of Northern Ireland are not plagued by Baliffs

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Just spoke to Rundles again, clamp has been removed 'due to the car being subject to a finance agreement' they have confirmed they will not touch the car again.

Clearly they are aware that what they have done is not legal as they would not have removed the clamp otherwise.

My next port of call will be filing the form 4 against the bailiff, and hitting the council with everything I possibly can!

You still require a breakdown of the charges, as the buggers may have charged a "levy fee" for attaching the clamp, a walking possession fee and an "abortive levy fee" for removing the clamp that should never have been attached.

I'd be extremely wary of trying a form 4, as the buggers have taken to defending such complaints rather aggressively, using the most expensive barrister they can find and, if the complaint is rejected, clobbering the complainant with thousands of quid in costs.

However, a letter or email to the certificating County Court, with copies enclosed of all emails or written statements by that bailiff, would certainly be a wise measure as the Court really ought to become aware of that bailiff's attitude to the law.

[bluebottle]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

May I issue a word of caution about filing a Form 4. This is only for a matter so serious that his Certificate may be removed and in turn he loses his job. I don't think this instance warrants this as he may claim he carrying out instructions from his employer. He is probably more likely to stand accused of being the proverbial dipstick but not a Form 4. However that is not to say you should not write a letter to the Court where his Certificate was granted pointing out his failings, they in turn may invite a Form 4 but more than likely will let the letter lie on his file ready for when his Certificate is to be renewed.

Totally agree, PT. This is not an incident that warrants a Form 4 complaint.

Unlawful Interference with Property and Unlawful Detention of Property are two civil torts that could be thrown at Rundles. However, you would need to seek the okay from the HP company first as the car is their property. I am not entirely sure as to how you would stand, legally, with regard to litigation against Rundles or the Council for allowing the numbskull of a bailiff to encroach onto your property to apply the clamp. It is not IMHO serious enough to warrant a Regulation 46 complaint to the magistrates court unless Rundles are stupid enough to do this or anything similar again and the Council is stupid enough to let them.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Fortunately the good folk of Northern Ireland are not plagued by Baliffs

Is that because bailiffs in Ulster tend to be shot?

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Unlawful Interference with Property and Unlawful Detention of Property are two civil torts that could be thrown at Rundles. However, you would need to seek the okay from the HP company first as the car is their property. I am not entirely sure as to how you would stand, legally, with regard to litigation against Rundles or the Council for allowing the numbskull of a bailiff to encroach onto your property to apply the clamp. It is not IMHO serious enough to warrant a Regulation 46 complaint to the magistrates court unless Rundles are stupid enough to do this or anything similar again and the Council is stupid enough to let them.

I believe the morons at Medway Council will be more than sufficiently stupid to allow Rundles to do whatever they please, including adding charges for the improper clamping and its subsequent release.

[ODC]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Is that because bailiffs in Ulster tend to be shot?

They do not exist in the same way as they do in other parts of the UK. I think this stems from when NI had its own real Parliament. Being a Bailiff in NI would be a particularly risky occupation.

NI has the Enforcement of Judgements Office who I suppose are a bit like baliffs only they have brains, intelligence and common sense. I asked for 3 months to pay a judgement once and they told me that that wasnt long enough and gave me six months.

[bluebottle]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

They do not exist in the same way as they do in other parts of the UK. I think this stems from when NI had its own real Parliament. Being a Bailiff in NI would be a particularly risky occupation.

NI has the Enforcement of Judgements Office who I suppose are a bit like baliffs only they have brains, intelligence and common sense. I asked for 3 months to pay a judgement once and they told me that that wasnt long enough and gave me six months.

We need something like that in England and Wales. At least it would curb some of the more unacceptable behaviour by bailiffs. Better still, get rid of private-sector bailiff companies altogether.

[h2013]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

I will hold fire on the Form 4. I will certainly be writing a letter to the Court to inform them of what has happened the last couple of days. I appreciate this may not be serious enough to file a Form 4 but his conduct is simply not legal.

If Rundles were acting within the law they would have left the clamp on.

Cleverclogs - you hit the nail on the head! Medway Council will be the ones to cock up again. I am happy to sit and wait for this to happen.

I have asked for a list of their fees, I will give them sufficient time and see what they believe they can charge.

Am I right in thinking that it's the £42.50 end of? Invalid Levy, illegal clamp, their choice to remove it and the bailiff himself told me there is no fee to remove it.

[ploddertom]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Here's another thread involving Medway, although it is for a PCN Unpaid pcn - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ffs-nw-inolved - might pay to swap details.

[h2013]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

Here's another thread involving Medway, although it is for a PCN Unpaid pcn - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ffs-nw-inolved - might pay to swap details.

Just read through that, typical of Medway Council! I have had countless problems with them, most I am able to shove back down their throats but their Bailiff's are in a league of their own.

Not sure if I already explained, this Council Tax debt we are dealing with at present has been disputed for about 2 years due to us leaving the previous property and Medway Council still holding us liable for some time after. Their 'Senior Recoveries Assistant' had a meeting with myself and my mother back in April '12 and told her to pay the Council directly and that he would stop the bailiff. He only put them on hold for 14 days and they were back again with their red letters full of nonsense.

When I repeated to him what he had told us at the meeting he denied it, lots of back and forth emails (as I prefer to do things in writing rather than on the phone etc) and we got nowhere. I wanted to file a complaint against him, someone from the Council wrote to us about 4/5 months ago explaining he would be dealing with our complaint and would be in touch...still heard nothing.

Just gives me one more bullet to fire at them.

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

When I repeated to him what he had told us at the meeting he denied it, lots of back and forth emails (as I prefer to do things in writing rather than on the phone etc) and we got nowhere. I wanted to file a complaint against him, someone from the Council wrote to us about 4/5 months ago explaining he would be dealing with our complaint and would be in touch...still heard nothing.

Do you believe your local councillor(s) should be paid for doing nothing other than wearing out the seats in the council chamber?

[CleverClogs]

Re: HP Car clamped, council tax debt.

I have asked for a list of their fees, I will give them sufficient time and see what they believe they can charge.

That should be interesting.

Am I right in thinking that it's the £42.50 end of? Invalid Levy, illegal clamp, their choice to remove it and the bailiff himself told me there is no fee to remove it.

Yes, but they might not agree.

In fact, if there had only been one visit made before the Council Berk (1) told you the bailiffs would be stopped for that Liability Order, the only applicable bailiff fees might be £24.50 - though you might be unable to prove your case.

(1) Yes, I do know the etymology... :rofl: