Help marstons charged £403

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

The usual obstruction and obfuscation.

Yes very frustrating.
It is difficult to find out when these powers re actually used, the presumption is that the only reported cases are when the police become involved, more often than not the threat and mention that they have the powers is enough to gain entry, it's a bit of a grey area.
Of course not knowing the guidance that they are supposed to follow makes it difficult to see if they are playing by the rules, or even what the rules are.

[bizzybob]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

At the risk of cluttering this thread. there was a FOI request sent to the HMCS in 2008, requesting the guidance for implementation of the search and entry powers under the DCVCA. They replied with a heavily redacted document that basically told nothing.
A complaint was logged with the ICO by Baroness Ashton and this is what resulted.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/~/media/docume..._50159091.ashx

The usual obstruction and obfuscation.

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

At the risk of cluttering this thread. there was a FOI request sent to the HMCS in 2008, requesting the guidance for implementation of the search and entry powers under the DCVCA. They replied with a heavily redacted document that basically told nothing.
A complaint was logged with the ICO by Baroness Ashton and this is what resulted.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/~/media/docume..._50159091.ashx

[bizzybob]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

They are supposed to identify the debtor is the person on the warrant before trying to execute it. So I would say that you would have the right to treat him the same way as any other burglar.

Thanks gravytrain, Marstons and other bailiffs often do not even do a simple check before steaming in, as happened in Plymouth, and an innocent party ended up severely injured by a Marstons bailiff, due to neither HMCS or marstons checking..

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

Snake & pygmy

But who should be arrested, me for mistaking the bailiff for a burglar, the debt not being mine, or the bailiff for not even bothering to check occupation before forcing the door?

They are supposed to identify the debtor is the person on the warrant before trying to execute it. So I would say that you would have the right to treat him the same way as any other burglar.

[bizzybob]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

The issue of forced entry is set in legislation. The warrant does carry the right of forced entry, but it is good practice to go back to the court before using this power as the risks of executing a warrant unilaterally is huge, as a certain bailiff found out recently.

The right of entry is given with the distress warrant from the Magistrates' Court, but there is a serious issue with at least Marstons where they print their own warrants and use these for entry. Often the figure owing on these differs from that on the original warrant from the court. The police, HM Courts and the Ministry of Justice appear not to care about this. I do!

Exactly so, as the fees can often dwarf the arrears or remainder of a fine still unpaid, but these private thugs should be nowhere near enforcement. One day soon it may well be a Marstons bailiff in hospital, or mortuary, when they push their way into what was the wrong house in more ways than one.

The whole issue of fees, and how a contract for fees can be binding on someone not party to it, as in it is contrary to the law of contract most likely.

[bizzybob]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

What kind of pie ?

Snake & pygmy

But who should be arrested, me for mistaking the bailiff for a burglar, the debt not being mine, or the bailiff for not even bothering to check occupation before forcing the door?

Re: Help marstons charged £403

The issue of forced entry is set in legislation. The warrant does carry the right of forced entry, but it is good practice to go back to the court before using this power as the risks of executing a warrant unilaterally is huge, as a certain bailiff found out recently.

The issue of fees is unlikely ever to be clarified short of a judicial review. I have spent a vast amount of time looking into the £300 fees (£85 and £215) recently, and have learned little that was not already known. It does seem clear there is a contractual right under Common Law to charge the fees. What is totally unclear is who should pay them. Until that is clarified, and I do not anticipate any FOI request or anything else resolving that in the immediate future, it would be irresponsible IMO to suggest debtors do anything other than pay the fees - others would disagree strongly with me.

I am aware of people recently who have been advised they are not liable for the fees as the fine itself has been cleared in full in the court. They have then found the bailiffs have forced entry in order to levy goods to secure their debt. The most recent of these was just yesterday.

The right of entry is given with the distress warrant from the Magistrates' Court, but there is a serious issue with at least Marstons where they print their own warrants and use these for entry. Often the figure owing on these differs from that on the original warrant from the court. The police, HM Courts and the Ministry of Justice appear not to care about this. I do!

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

Easy people, these questions need to be asked, as basically passing UNRESTRICTED power to force entry, over even what the police have into the hands of companies as duibious as Marstons is a VERY BAD idea indeed, as their track record of assaults on non debtors, and debtors alike bears witness.

Incidentally here is one scenario, you could answer then.

Warrant is issued to marstons to enter my home for a debtor, who has been gone for 15 years, they haven't bothered to check, I have been with my family in occupation since then, and have been on the Register of Electors all the time, they break in without further ado, as I don't answer the door I am in the kitchen with a rolling pin as I am making a pie for dinner, think he is an intruder so clout him with it.

Who should be arrested and Why?

What kind of pie ?

[bizzybob]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

Yes that must be it BB nothing to do with your usual mistaken advice.

Easy people, these questions need to be asked, as basically passing UNRESTRICTED power to force entry, over even what the police have into the hands of companies as duibious as Marstons is a VERY BAD idea indeed, as their track record of assaults on non debtors, and debtors alike bears witness.

Incidentally here is one scenario, you could answer then.

Warrant is issued to marstons to enter my home for a debtor, who has been gone for 15 years, they haven't bothered to check, I have been with my family in occupation since then, and have been on the Register of Electors all the time, they break in without further ado, as I don't answer the door I am in the kitchen with a rolling pin as I am making a pie for dinner, think he is an intruder so clout him with it.

Who should be arrested and Why?

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

It appears to me, Gravytrain, you are being your usual argumentative self - no matter what incarnation you wish to be addressed by - for the sheer sake of being argumentative. The FOIA request is to clarify a number of issues relating to private bailiff companies acting on behalf of HMCTS. End of.

Yes that must be it BB nothing to do with your usual mistaken advice.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

It appears to me, Gravytrain, you are being your usual argumentative self - no matter what incarnation you wish to be addressed by - for the sheer sake of being argumentative. The FOIA request is to clarify a number of issues relating to private bailiff companies acting on behalf of HMCTS. End of.

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

Let's wait and see what HMCTS say, shall we, Gravytrain?

Sure although I am not exactly sure what it is you are expecting them to say that has any relevance here.

[bluebottle]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

Let's wait and see what HMCTS say, shall we, Gravytrain?

[gravytrain]

Re: Help marstons charged £403

I have asked MoJ/HMCTS for up-to-date copies of their contractors' contracts and to clarify a number of matters relating to contracted bailiff companies working for them under an FOIA request. They have informed me they hope to have this with me by 18 March 2013.

It isn't a matter of contractual obligation it is their legal prerogative under the warrant sadly.