Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

[Plushchris]

Hi,

Just after a little advice, shortly before Christmas I was visited by a bailiff from Stanford & Green, he handed me a notice of seizure including a vehicle that was on my drive and listed charges as follows..

Arrears due to authority £1034.69
Fees £18
Levy Fee £53.25
Attendance charge £125

Amount now due £1230.94

I took advice at the time from national debtline and filled out an incoming/outgoings sheet showing the £100 per month repayment that I was pushed into setting up was too much.

I phoned the bailiff to tell him and he just tutted when I said I had taken advice and wouldnt listen and kept speaking over me. Had he let me finish I would have told him the car isnt mine (its my nephews but is registered in my name)

I emailed Stanford and greens office telling them the above and they just said I would have to call the bailiff on his mobile number, I emailed back saying I refuse to deal with the bailiff as he was rude and made up bogus charges and that I would email them proof that the car wasnt mine.

A week or so later once I got the original sales receipt from my nephew I scanned it and emailed it to them, they confirmed receipt of the email within the hour.

I then emailed the council to ask them to take the debt back due to the way the bailiff acted.

Last Thursday another bailiff from Stanford and green knocked on my door and went through the same thing, I told him I had emailed the proof of ownership to the office and he just replied "yeah we dont believe that" and said he is going to seize the car.

With that (rightly or wrongly) I got my keys and got in the car to drive it off, he tried to stop me closing the door and kept saying "you cant take it, its been seized" but I took it and drove it away.

When I got back I had another notice of seizure put through my door almost the same as last time with the car listed and the fees as follows..

Arrears due to authority £1022.69
Levy fee £53.25
Walking possesion fee £12
Attendance fee £125

Amount now due £1212.94

After this I emailed the bailiffs office again, who again told me I need to deal with the bailiff over the phone, emailed them back to say I wasnt happy to do that and that if they refused to accept that I wasnt the owner after emailing them the original sales receipt, what would they accept? To date I have had no reply.

I also emailed the council and my local MP to demand this is now taken back, no reply (again) from the council but a couple of replies from MP saying they will deal with it on my behalf and they also copied me into the email they sent to the council.


At the bottom of the notice of seizure it says the bailiff will be back this friday (8th Feb) to collect full balance or remove goods.

Can he take the car on friday? Its not worth enough to cover the debt.

Whats with the difference in fees, not one piece of paperwork I have from the bailiffs has the right liability order amount on it. Is the walking possession fee correct?

If they didnt believe the original sales receipt to prove ownership, why have they dropped the charges off the first notice of seizure?

Would appreciate a little more help so I know what to do if and when he returns on Friday

Both bailiffs that visited the property are registered, I've checked that. The second one that turned up was driving a small car (Fiesta I think), not something he could remove a 4x4 vehicle with.

[Plushchris]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

Also the second bailiff kept asking for the V5 document (which is in my name) when I said its registered in my name but the V5 itself states the registered keeper is not the legal owner he asked for a copy of my insurance certificate which he said proves who is the legal owner "as it states the legal owner on the insurance certificate"

I refused to show him anything but disgust.

It doesnt mention anything to do with the legal owner on the insurance, Ive checked it thoroughly

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

As for the Bailiff you need to know exactly what they are trying to charge & the dates they do it on. Send Letter 1 from http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters . Does your nephew still have receipt for the vehicle?

[Plushchris]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

Yes still have the receipt for the vehicle, emailed them a copy of it.

There is only one liability order.

I asked for a breakdown of fees using pretty much the same wording as letter 1 after the first visit before christmas, and got the following reply..

Further to your email which we received earlier today, we have to inform you that you will be required to contact Mr Bailiff direct on 07581 ******.


Fees have been added under Schedule 5 charges connected with distress (the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement regulations 1998).

Mr Bailiffs attendance was required due to the arrangement which we made with yourselves on the 1 October 2010 being broken.


On the 1 October 2012 a payment of £250.00 was paid to ourselves along with an arrangement of £100.00 per month to start from the 1 November 2012. We received a late payment from you on the 6 November 2012 and no further payments since.

A breakdown of any charges would have already been left at your property by Mr Bailiff


The only "breakdown of charges" was the charges as listed above on the notice of seizure.

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

That's enough for me to suggest the Bailiffs are being obstructive and refusing to deal with a legitimate request. You should contact the Council and advise them of their Bailiffs intransigence and insist as they are 100% liable for the actions & charges of their contractor that they should provide the information. You can also tell the Council that proof as been provided as to ownership of the vehicle and again the Bailiffs are refusing to acknowledge this, you are therefore considering issuing a Regulation 46 Complaint at the local Magistrates Court where the Council will be named as defendant.

A Reg 46 is where a debtor who is aggrieved at the levy made may make a complaint against the authority that instigated the proceedings. Usually the threat of this is enough for the Council to make the Bailiffs remove the charge, if this happens you also need to ensure all other associated charges are also removed.

This firm of Bailiffs have form for this type of behaviour and it is not to be tolerated.

[Plushchris]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

Excellent reply Ploddertom, just the kind of thing I was wanting to know, thankyou!

Surely the fact that the fees on the first notice have not been added to the second doesnt make any sense either.

I pointed out the car wasnt mine and told them to remove the invalid fees from the first notice and they did, then to just try and charge them again anyway doesnt make sense to me, its like they have admitted they were wrong on the first notice but willing to make the same mistake again?

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

It's not a mistake at all, it's an administrative error on their behalf. How dare you insinuate they make mistakes:flypig:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

Both bailiffs that visited the property are registered, I've checked that. The second one that turned up was driving a small car (Fiesta I think), not something he could remove a 4x4 vehicle with.

Not even using the special miniaturising ray gun that bailiffs use to shrink motor cars to the size of a matchbox?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

A statutory declaration by your nephew should take care of the question of ownership.

The attached document lists the fees that may lawfully be demanded in England. (Thanks, Labman...)

[labman]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

A statutory declaration by your nephew should take care of the question of ownership.

The attached document lists the fees that may lawfully be demanded in England.

IFYPFY!

The 2006 Regulations have never been adopted by the Welsh Assembly Government, so fees in Wales are slightly different for Visits 1 and 2.

[bizzybob]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

IFYPFY!

The 2006 Regulations have never been adopted by the Welsh Assembly Government, so fees in Wales are slightly different for Visits 1 and 2.

First visit £22.50 second visit £16 in wales, so you get a discount for living in the Land of Song, Leeks, Daffodils,garbage, public transport, and rain

[Plushchris]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

First visit £22.50 second visit £16 in wales, so you get a discount for living in the Land of Song, Leeks, Daffodils,garbage, public transport, and rain

You forgot slate

[bizzybob]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

You forgot slate

Slate only if in or near Blaenau Ffestiniog

[CleverClogs]

Re: Advice needed, council tax/Stanford and Green

First visit £22.50 second visit £16 in wales, so you get a discount for living in the Land of Song, Leeks, Daffodils,garbage, public transport, and rain

Efallai na allent gael yr amserlen ddiwygiedig gyfieithu i'r Gymraeg?

Or then find anyone who spoke enough Welshish to understand it? :rofl: