Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Thank you both for your replies, your help has been invaluable.

Reading The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, I came across this bit (under "Distress"):

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

I shall inform Rundles of this as they appear to be unaware. In the conversation I had with the council to make payment, I asked clearly for the total amount due to clear the debt, and while they did say something about bailiff fees there was no indication what those charges may be, nor have Rundles set out any charges until now, almost 2 months after the council tax debt was paid.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Strictly speaking, the Breakdown of Fees by Rundles is highly-suspect. If they cannot substantiate visits and other fees, the demand is illegal. The threats they are now making in respect of those fees they cannot prove they are entitled to charge and those which are not in accordance with legislation are completely illegal and they are in very real danger of criminal prosecution if they continue to assert a right they potentially do not have in law. If the bailiff has conjured up these fees, I feel that he needs to be sent a very blunt letter that his bailiff certificate is at risk of cancellation if he continues to assert a claim for fees for work he has not yet proven he has carried out and, also, fees which are not in accordance with relevant legislation.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

A Bailiff when attending a property for collection of Council Tax must leave a Notice detailing his visit & the charge he made. Ask them to prove the visits were made as no letters or notifications were left, even better if you can swear you were at home.

When levying on goods a Bailiff must leave a Notice of Seizure (Form 7) that describes the items seized. Again he must also leave a list of charges he has applied. The Notice of Seizure is a legal requirement. Ask them to provide proof of any levy that took place as no NoS was left. Also he may not charge a Van/Attendance Fee at the same time as you would not have been given an opportunity to pay had the seizure been made.

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Update.

Reply from Rundles to my second letter. Notes in italics are mine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
Total Outstanding: £118.50
Due to Medway Council in relation to a Council Tax debt (despite Medway confirming nothing was due to them)

Further to your request for a breakdown of fees applied to the above debt, (I did not request a breakdown of fees, this has been the first mention of any fees from Rundles) we detail the fees below:

Aug 24, 2012 Debt 1,111.16 (this was paid in full directly to the council 22/10/12)
Sep 28, 2012 Visit fee 1 24.50 (never happened)
Oct 5, 2012 Visit fee 2 18.00 (never happened)
Oct 18, 2012 Levy fee 56.00 (no goods were ever levied as I have never seen a Rundles agent let alone allowed one into my home)
Oct 18, 2012 Attendance / Van 90.00 (again, I have never seen evidence that this was the case)

If you require further information please contact us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

First and second visits are fictional as far as I am aware, no letters or notices were left to say they had ever been. The date fro the Levy and Van fees would be the day I had the first hand-delivered letter as described in my first post. Debt was paid in full directly to the council a few days later. All previous communications have been threatening to seize goods for unpaid council tax, this is the first time they've made any reference to their fees and they are saying it is due to Medway Council and not themselves. Not sure how to proceed now, I have no intention of paying them anything, certainly not for fictitious visits and just turning up allegedly with a van without doing anything.

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

No worries, thanks for sharing. I sent Rundles a fairly blunt letter in reply to their latest demand stating that I will not contact their agent by phone and they would not be granted access to my property under any circumstances, as far as I am concerned this debt does not exist and any further demands will be treated as harassment. Have heard nothing back since, though it's only been a week. No visits either despite the continual "I will return in 48 hours".
Have you got it in writing that the debt has been paid off? If not, contact the council and ask for it, then write to Equita stating that the debt does not exist and the council have confirmed this.

[counciltaxgrief]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, was merely posting about a very similar situation.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Hi, I'm in exactly the same situation as you at the moment. I paid the outstanding debt (£95 court costs on a liability order) directly to the council because, like you, I didn't want anything to do with the bailiffs, a company called Equita. The council took payment happily enough and said they would notify Equita but I'm still getting letters from them. Four so far, the latest being a removal notice. No one has actualy knocked on the door yet.

This is not the first time I've had to suffer the stress of bailiffs and their threats. A couple of years ago, I was renting a flat and the tenancy agreement stated that the landlord would be paying the council tax plus some utility bills. Long story short, the landlord kept "forgetting" to pay the tax and would never answer my calls, the letting agent washed their hands of it, the council said I was liable becuase I actualy lived there and took me to court, the bailiffs got involved and it was about 6 months of constant misery and hours on the phone, writting letters trying to sort the mess out. In the end, I had to stop paying rent just to get the landlords attention and he finaly paid the bailiffs over the phone.

This time around, I'm trying not to get stressed about it but it's difficult not to.

.

If you start a thread of your own you will get a better response. http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...newthread&f=76

[counciltaxgrief]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Hi, I'm in exactly the same situation as you at the moment. I paid the outstanding debt (£95 court costs on a liability order) directly to the council because, like you, I didn't want anything to do with the bailiffs, a company called Equita. The council took payment happily enough and said they would notify Equita but I'm still getting letters from them. Four so far, the latest being a removal notice. No one has actualy knocked on the door yet.

This is not the first time I've had to suffer the stress of bailiffs and their threats. A couple of years ago, I was renting a flat and the tenancy agreement stated that the landlord would be paying the council tax plus some utility bills. Long story short, the landlord kept "forgetting" to pay the tax and would never answer my calls, the letting agent washed their hands of it, the council said I was liable becuase I actualy lived there and took me to court, the bailiffs got involved and it was about 6 months of constant misery and hours on the phone, writting letters trying to sort the mess out. In the end, I had to stop paying rent just to get the landlords attention and he finaly paid the bailiffs over the phone.

This time around, I'm trying not to get stressed about it but it's difficult not to.

.

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Update.

Another letter from Rundles today - Prior Notice Of Intended Proceedings. "The above debt remains outstanding......etc etc" even though there is no actual figure stated, simply "Council Tax Debt", a debt which does not exist as described above. This is mere days after writing to them stating the debt is clear and they have replied to that letter. Clearly these idiots do not talk to each other and will continue to use threats and intimidation to get their snouts in the trough and extort money. I'm having none of it.
They also only provide a mobile number to call (which I will not do) and letters to their head office are answered with "just call this number". Surely it is their job to inform their agents that they are incorrectly chasing a debt, not mine. I am not stressed about this situation, simply angry and disgusted by their behaviour and seeming refusal to respond.

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Thanks Terry. Nothing has been signed, in fact due to work committments I have never been at home when they visitied (or claimed to visit), and I have no intentions of letting them in or dealing with them outside of written communication.

Was your experience recently? And if so, is the matter considered closed?

[Terry54661]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

I had this for council tax. The bailiff turned up at my door asking for the council tax arrears and his charges. I went to the council offices the next day and paid the account in full. Within a few days the bailiff was back on my door, i told him that he did not enter my property and that means he cannot collect his fees i told him i had not even signed anything that he wanted me too either, he went away very angry. He did return again but i just repeated what i had already said the last time.

So dont sign anything and dont let them in, that way they cant collect the fee's

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

None of their letters have alluded to their fees at all, it simply said they were there to seize goods for unpaid council tax. The council were paid directly and confirmed in writing that the council tax account was clear. I wrote to Rundles stating that the account was clear and that no further payment is expected of me, and I had a reply back yesterday simply stating that all queries should be directed to the bailiff in charge and here's his phone number. They did not provide a postal address other than their head office.
Knowing their reputation for lies, threats and imtimidation I am not going to contact anyone by phone.
As far as I am concerned , judging by their own demands they are attempting to collect payment for unpaid council tax, not their fees. As I have paid the council tax then Rundles can go f___ themselves.
I will write back to them at head office stating that I do not wish to contact anyone by telephone or in person, all communication will be conducted in writing, and reiterate that they are chasing me for a debt that does not exist according to the council.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

On the face of things it looks as if all you should be due to pay in fees would be a 1st Visit of £24-50, so where they get the others is a mystery. As has been said you can wait and challenge them to take you to Court for them butmany are even reluctant to do this as they have to swear they are correct.

[IanM]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

Don't pay the bailiff fees full stop, let them take you to court for them and you will find that because you paid the council direct the bailiffs have not done their job and are not entitled to their fees.

Do you think that if, as a builder, i was sent to look at a job and then someone else did the job i would be able to charge for doing that job just because i went to look at it?

[michael the mouse]

Re: Bailiffs demanding fees after debt is paid

******** they can not clamp your car for council tax **************

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that it's easy pickings for them as it is a possession they can remove without gaining entry to your property