Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

[sanj]

2 Bailiffs attended a friends home collecting council tax arrears.
They didn't let them in there home , he and his wife were outside in there drive way,talking about the possibility of there car getting clamped if they did'nt pay...the usually crap!!
(THEY KNEW NOT TO LET BAILIFFS IN)
They have 3 kids aged 6,9.12,who were inside watching t.v whist there parents are outside with the bailiffs.After 5 minutes there little girl aged 9 open the front door but didn't step outside and called for her mum,as soon as the bailiff herd this he raced to the front door pushed passed the girl and made himself at home whist the parents were still stocked they went inside after him.He gave them a big list and £800 fee.The family are vulnerable as there father is long term ill ,unemployed the children have a social worker because of marital problems which there local authority is fully aware off.
CAN WE HELP THIS FAMILY ALL HELP APPRECIATED

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

Although it may be morally wrong what he has done, legally he is in the right as the parents should have locked the door - but that's by the by now.

To help them we will need some info. You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions, if speaking on their behalf you will need their permission:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

As for the goods they have seized we will need to see a list of what has been seized exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure, also is there a list of charges on the reverse. I note what you say about their family problems and agree on the face of things they may be classed as vulnerable - do you know if the Council are aware of any of this, has anything similar been said to the Bailiffs.

Not being funny but sometimes it is hard to deal with problems like this as a 3rd party, do they have any internet access themselves?

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

What Benefits do the family get? To claim vulnerability they will also need to write to both Bailiffs & Council providing proof of Benefits & any illness/disability. It may pay for them to involve their local Councillor(s) as they can interevne at a higher level within the Council.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

or involve the MP

[miliitant]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

ploddertom

as stated, i know nothing on baliff law but i was allways of the opinion that you had to let them inn with your consent for them to do a levy

i realise they can enter through an unlocked door or window but the parents had allready denied them the right of entry prior to this action of pushing past the little girl

any chance of what law they are using to be able to do this

many thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

Even if the parents were outside, the bailiff did, nevertheless, push past someone in order to gain entry. That is forcible entry. The bailiff knows that, but, if they follow the "I'm a bailiff and I can do what I like" mantra, they will swear blind they didn't. IMHO, I do not feel a court would take a favourable view of the bailiff's actions in this case. Whether it invalidates the levy and justifies a Regulation 46 complaint is another matter.

[miliitant]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

their is case law now on right of entry where a baliff was using the term "foot in the door"

a judge decided that was not lawfull and you had to let them inn on your own accord as it was trespass after first contact and right of entry had been withdrawn

thats why i am trying to get confirmation

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

IMHO the OP's local councillor and MP need to become involved in this matter. There may also be grounds for a complaint against the bailiff for Common Assault against the 9 year-old girl.

I agree with Miliitant as to whether a bailiff's mode of entry is lawful or not. To the best of my knowledge and belief, a bailiff must only enter peaceably. They must not push past someone, or assault them or use force in any way as a means of gaining entry. Putting their foot in the door would constitute force. Forcible entry not authorised by a court would invalidate any levy or seizure.

From what the OP has posted, in my judgement I would say that the bailiff has an invalid levy, regardless of any protestations from him to the contrary.

Which local authority and which bailiff company are involved in this case? If the bailiff company is OFT-registered, which is likely if they are collecting CT arrears, this needs to be reported to OFT Credit Fitness Team without delay.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

ploddertom

as stated, i know nothing on baliff law but i was allways of the opinion that you had to let them inn with your consent for them to do a levy

i realise they can enter through an unlocked door or window but the parents had allready denied them the right of entry prior to this action of pushing past the little girl

any chance of what law they are using to be able to do this

many thanks

As you have said they gained entry through an unlocked door and whilst it is true they can be asked to leave this does not appear to have happened. The OP has said they pushed past the child but notice there is no mention of any injury caused therefore assuming no force used. Unlike an adult who may have stood there ground I actually imagine what has happened is that the child has opened the door and the Bailiff seized his opportunity by entering the premises. It is difficult to know the exact circumstances but in this instance the benefit of the doubt must be given to the Bailiff. If the parents really wanted to deny him entry then the door should have been locked.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

I feel this may be a case where a court might have to decide whether the bailiff is in the clear or in something with a decidedly unpleasant smell. IMHO I do not think it makes an awful lot of difference whether the bailiff pushes past an adult or child. The bailiff could still have a complaint of Common Assault made against them. And as a child under 13 is involved, that might have a bearing.

[sanj]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

The bailiffs company is Bristow ad Sutor and London Bourgh of Hillingdon

[sanj]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

The only people present at the time INSIDE the house were the 2 other siblings watching t.v,he should have left the house besides when the child open the door he could quite easy see it a child and not entered, the child doesn't know what's going on,the bailiff was about 6ft 2 " what chance does a little 9 year old child has when this big heavy bailiff is head your way?

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

Quite right, Sanj. From what you have said, it sounds very much like this numpty of a bailiff has breached MoJ National Standards for Enforcement Agents. I still have doubts as to the validity of his levy AND the legality of his actions. LB of Hillingdon is in the proverbial over this along with the bailiff and B & S. Local authorities and bailiff companies have signed up to the National Standards.

It might be an idea for the family affected to pursue this through their local councillor, as recommended by Ploddertom, and their MP, as recommend by Springer Spaniel.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

The only people present at the time INSIDE the house were the 2 other siblings watching t.v,he should have left the house besides when the child open the door he could quite easy see it a child and not entered, the child doesn't know what's going on,the bailiff was about 6ft 2 " what chance does a little 9 year old child has when this big heavy bailiff is head your way?

I fully appreciate what you say and have a lot of sympathy for the situation. However I still stand by what I said yesterday and rather than focus on what happened should shift the attention to the problems of the parents (Vulnerability Issues) and the possible validity of whatever levy was made. Obviously there is letter writing to be done and I suppose a lot depends on who is going to do that. Is it possible to see a list of the goods "allegedly" seized as the chances are it will contain may items that are exempt or of little value.

[sanj]

Re: Bailiff pushes pass child to gain entry

If a temporary agreement has been reached for example 5 months,After 5 months what happeneds?As the agreement is temporary is it still temp?