HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff.

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Unless the bailiff can produce a valid Clamping Order from the court and a valid Distress Warrant, the bailiff is in trouble and could be at risk of having his certificate discharged and bond forfeited without a Form 4 hearing. This happened to a Ross & Roberts bailiff in Southern England earlier this year.

As for the bailiff, he is behaving like a complete tit. The police will ask to see written proof that he had lawful authority to clamp the car in the first place. They have better things to do than go around chasing after willy-waving idiots like him. If the court have waived the £30 and told you the bailiffs cannot go any further, the bailiff is about as powerful as a fart in a biscuit tin.

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Hi hope so bluebottle, I really think the clamp belongs to him personally, as the distress notice says I have six days to pay inventory my car does not mention clamped etc. I asked to pay half this week and the rest next week Thursday as I get paid monthly, point blank refused. The clamp does not have any markings on as authority or property of marstons I actually am beginning to beleive that this is for his own personal use. Also I was given a four digit number is this his certificate number, and how do I get a form 4 hearing started? xx

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Do not go into a Form 4 complaint blindly. It can be very costly if it is not handled correctly. A Form 4 complaint is intended for conduct on the part of a bailiff that is so serious that it brings into question the bailiff's fitness to act as a bailiff.

Before you even think of looking at a Form 4, you need to establish if the court had issued Marston Group with a valid Clamping Order and that the warrant he claimed he had was valid. HMCTS can issue a Form 5 complaint against the bailiff if they find his conduct is contrary to the law.

I am of the opinion that this bailiff did not have a valid Clamping Order from the court, in which case, the attachment of the clamp to your car was illegal. I would not put it past him that the threats to call the police were bluff. If he went to the police, they asked to see a valid Clamping Order from the court and he was unable to produce such an order, they would put him on his arse on the pavement outside the police station.

You need the court to confirm any orders, etc., that it issued to Marston Group before deciding whether to pursue a Form 4 complaint.

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Hi Everyone.. BAD NEWS!!!!! enforcements have tried all day to speak with Marstons to revoke the order, as there are discrepenacies in the distress notice.. 1. Not given me notice of clamp to vehicle
2. £215.00 removal cost of vehicle yet no vehicle has been removed
3. Doctors note stating I have a Tumor of the pituarity Gland
4. Letter that has been tyed states I have six days to pay

Marstons refused to accept any fax from enforcements about my condition, refused point blank that they have done anything wrong. I asked for the area manager within HMCTs and enforcements have advised me to go to my local county courts Monday Am and seek advice. They have been really good the enforcement team, advised me to keep hiding the car and even go to the local paper. Im not going down that route. But really dont know where to turn over the weekend. -

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Unfortunately, some court staff don't know their arses from their elbows. If you didn't speak to the Area HMCTS Enforcement Manager, I would not put much weight on what you were told by the muppet you spoke to today. What you do need to find out is if Marstons were issued with a Clamping Order. If they were not, they have acted illegally and there is nothing they can do about you moving your car. The fact you were able to remove the clamp so easily tends to suggest to me they did it as a threat. If they had a Clamping Order, you would not have been able to physically remove it.

When the Muppet from Marstons turns up tomorrow, ask to see a copy of the Warrant and a Clamping Order. Expect him to refuse. Make sure you have spoken to the Area HMCTS Enforcement Manager beforehand. This will give you ammunition to fire at the Muppet. Don't be scared by any threats. If you have a mobile phone with the ability to be used as a voice recorder, record what he says.

Hi Im sorry to bother you again, the dates on my distress notice say the 18/04/12 this is whatthey are claiming for is this legal as i THINK i HAVE JUST READ THAT THEY CANNOT CLAIM ON A DISTRESS WARRANT AFTER 180 DAYS. Sorry for the caps x Kim

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Haha funny how my bailliff is from this firm .... Also checked on the balliff register for his name and it does not appear I checked at Justice balliff Register would this be correct - he also gave me a number four digits would this be correct.

2009 Marston Group and Detailed Assessment.
Ref: Judgement by District Judge Avent.

If a debtor considers that he has been overchared by a bailiff, he can apply to the court forDetailed Assessment. This will involve a Cost Judge closely examining the charges applied by the bailiff against the statutory fee scale as laid down by Parliament together with Case Law.
In the Legal Cases section of our Downloads area we are providing a full copy of a Detailed Assessment Judgement following a complaint by the claimant concerning disputed fees of £200 relating to a "clamp fee" of £100 and a further fee of £100 for “attending to remove” when enforcing an unpaid PCN that had been issued by London Borough of Camden.
This Detailed Assessment is vitally important as District Judge Avent, after considering Case Law and Statute, found that the purpose of putting on a clamp is to "impound" the vehicle and is therefore not part of the cost of removal.

At Paragraph 50 of his Judgement District Judge Avent stated that:

"Accordingly, in my judgement the bailiff should not and, as a matter of law cannot take any steps to remove goods until he has given the debtor a reasonable opportunity to pay what is due at the time of seizure. This being so, I cannot see that Form 7 (Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory) can or should include any costs of removal"

On the matter of the charge of £100 for "attending to remove" (although the vehicle was never actually removed) in that a tow truck was called and actually arrived at the Claimant’s home, District Judge Advent confirmed that:
"This amount (£100) cannot be recovered because the defendant (Marston Group Ltd) have produced no evidence whatsoever as to how this charge has been arrived at and therefore they are unable to show that it is reasonable”.

He also confirmed that:
"A bailiff does not have free rein to charge what he likes because the schedule of charges does not stipulate a sum but rather provides for "reasonable charges"
The District Judge in his conclusion further stated that:

"I am also conscious that my findings in this case may have wider consequences and may cause problems for bailiffs because they will not be able to charge for immobilising a vehicle as a separate charge but must include it within the cost of levying distress. To do otherwise would, in my judgement, be unlawful

“I would also add that if the Defendant or either of them in the light of this judgement now continued to apply such charges in the manner in which they have done up to now and, specifically, charge fees of £100 for applying an immobilisation device then that would amount to conduct which may well then found a legitimate complaint because in my judgement it would be unlawful....".

What this means in effect is that Bailiffs who continue to make unlawfulcharges may beguilty of misconduct and have their Certificates removed.

The bailiff company obtained permission from the court to appeal this Judgement, and in granting this, District Judge Avent stated that:
"The bailiff was following the practice in force for 15 years. No one has challenged the right to charge for wheel clamping before. My decision that they cannot do so (at least to the extent that they have charged until now) not only affects the London Borough of Camden but also every Borough with de-criminalised parking”

"Accordingly, it has significant local and possible National implications and that is a compelling reason why an appeal should be heard"
If Marston Group had appealed, the case would have been referred to the Court of Appeal and, if the Lord Justices agreed with the Judgment this would allow a precedent to be set and this landmark ruling could have led to significant claims being made against all bailiff companies by debtors.

Marston Group advised the court shortly afterwards that they had decided to accept the Judgement of District Judge Avent and accordingly they advised the Court of their decision not to appeal.
Note:

Since this Judgement, many people have relied upon this document when writing to the bailiff company to challenge "attending to remove....clamping or immobilisation fees" and it is also an important document to rely upon in the event that a small claim action in the County Court is being considered.

[singlemom]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

I am sorry to hear what happened with the CAB. I think it depends on area......I am lucky as I have a good local CAB. The CAB have no authority to call without your permission. I remember one person was about to call Tax Credits but I asked politely for them to refrain from doing so.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Bella can you pm me his/her name please?

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

I have sent you a PM, Bella. Please, check your inbox. I need to clarify a few things before this matter is moved forward.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

ty bb, please ignore the call on chatbox i was bringing this thread to your attention, but my internet is running like a dead dog

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

ty bb, please ignore the call on chatbox i was bringing this thread to your attention, but my internet is running like a dead dog

Hi, Puff. yeah. I need to clarify a few things with Bella before we move this forward. I am very concerned about the behaviour of Marston Group in this matter. It is beginning to sound very much that they didn't have a Clamping Order from the court, in which case, the clamping of Bella's car is illegal and the medical matter, backed by a doctor's letter, is an immediate "back off and await further instructions" matter. This is because HMCTS would need to seek advice before proceeding further.

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Hi All sorry for the late reply... I WAS ARRESTED.... For criminal damage and theft of a vehicle. My son has just paid the debt for me because he was worried... |I really did not want him to pay this... I am furious... I am going to the courts tomorrow and I want this MAN / BULLY/ Dealt with. the police said they are just acting on a criminal charge and really felt for me.. I thought the police were who we had to be afraid of not a BAlliff. If anyone can help with started a case against them Then It would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou everyone for advice xx Kim

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Hi All sorry for the late reply... I WAS ARRESTED.... For criminal damage and theft of a vehicle. My son has just paid the debt for me because he was worried... |I really did not want him to pay this... I am furious... I am going to the courts tomorrow and I want this MAN / BULLY/ Dealt with. the police said they are just acting on a criminal charge and really felt for me.. I thought the police were who we had to be afraid of not a BAlliff. If anyone can help with started a case against them Then It would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou everyone for advice xx Kim

The trouble with certificated bailiffs is that they lie. What evidence of Criminal Damage and Theft did this bailiff have and cite to the police? If the HMCTS Enforcement Team at the court told Marston Group to cease enforcement, the arrest is, in all probability, unlawful, if not, illegal. This, therefore, raises questions as to how to deal with this bailiff and Marston Group.

Making A False Report of A Crime is a criminal offence. I would contact the Enforcement Team at the court first thing tomorrow and let them know what has happened. From what you have said, it sounds like the police, themselves, are uneasy about what the bailiff has done. Unfortunately, when a report of a crime is made to the police, they have to go on what is presented to them at the time. However, if, subsequently, it becomes evident that the complainant made a false report and false allegations, then the police can act against the complainant.

It may be that you need to ask the HMCTS Enforcement Team to contact the police station involved and explain the situation. If the police have any sense, you may get a visit from an Inspector or above about the matter. They will be keen to distance the police force from the actions of Marston Group's corrupt behaviour. It is possible the police may offer to refer the matter to the IPCC voluntarily, but I doubt this. Informal resolution at local level is more likely. If they ask you to make a Statement of Complaint against the bailiff, go for it. That gives the police the necessary authority to act. As to any civil remedy that may be appropriate, I feel that is a matter for our more learned members who are more familiar with Civil Litigation Law than I am and would be in a better position to advise you in this respect.

[smellybella]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Im Just in shock, Bluebottle, I just need some help with drafting an official complaint to the Judge, He made a false statement to the police, he directly manipulated his postition and his jobrole, I could loise my Job as a direct consequence of his actions, due to being arrested, although all charges were dropped after payment was made.. I either stole it or I didnt surely the money being handed over does not de criminalise the charge, Im not that clever by far, but I sure have alot of common sense x

[bluebottle]

Re: HELP PLEASE ANYONE> Received a distress notice, hand posted. Not seen the bailiff

Firstly, you MUST speak to the Area HMCTS Enforcement Manager first thing tomorrow morning - without fail.

Secondly, you need to establish whether the court had issued a Clamping Order to Marston Group. If no Clamping Order was issued, the clamping of your car was ILLEGAL.

Thirdly, you need to establish what action the HMCTS Enforcement Team at the court took in respect of Marston Group.

Fourthly, you need to tell the HMCTS Area Enforcement Manager EXACTLY what the bailiff did, including EXACTLY what he said to the police.

Fifthly, you need to put the HMCTS Area Enforcement Manager on the spot and ask them to tell you what the HMCTS is going to do about the actions of Marston Group. HMCTS is 100% vicariously-liable for what happened. If at all possible, gently push the Enforcement Manager into a corner and get him/her to ring the police station and speak to the Superintendent.

Finally, it is possible you may need to make a formal Statement of Complaint to the police against the bailiff. That is not as bad as it sounds. From what you have said, it sounds like the police aren't exactly comfortable about what the bailiff did.

As a matter of interest, which is your local police force?