Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

[pepsie]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Its a simple question, or like contracts, the question is too complex?

and when did I insult you? sorry I didnt intend to insult you, my bad then, but , please pritty pritty please answer the Q. Im sure others would like to see it too.

Please refrain from using this thread unless you have advice for the OP should they require it.

As you are only to well aware davyb started a discussion thread and you can vent your spleen against Davyb. labman and myself on there if that is what you get off on?

pepsie

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Pepsie, the above question is valid.

The OP has no liability for bailiffs fees on court fines, and Labmans link proved it.

I asked him why he feels that a printed fee schedule on bailiffs notepaper constitutes a fine or an order for payment.

I put it in big print for a reason, because by his own admission, is unable follow the terms of a contract, "too complex".

Im sure LB wants to be sure the OP is not unlawfully deprived of money by anyones inadequacies.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Hi
Post 28 is just another example of why you should not be on this forum, it shows no respect for the opinion of others, and I say this as someone who has been guilty of similar transgressions in the past, how you are still allowed to post on here frankly amazes me.

In answer to the question raise in the post , i would say because the magistrates court says it can, and more importantly because no court has ever said it cant, in fact as far as I can see the only one who says it cannot be is you.

D

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

because the magistrates court says it can

Under what regulation is that?


Prove to this forum, the magistrates court has ever said a defendant is liable for the fees of the enforcement contractor


Oh jeez! I cant believe I am seeing this stuff, you dig yourself deeper and deeper.

This is supposed to be a legal debate forum, and you come up with nonsense like that. .... and you say I should be on this forum?

[Celestine]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

I put it in big print for a reason, because by his own admission, is unable follow the terms of a contract, "too complex".

Im sure LB wants to be sure the OP is not unlawfully deprived of money by anyones inadequacies.

It's a shame you don't know how to make a point without being so insulting. LB is a community where we share and discuss ideas to develop common strands of opinion.
You could have something valuable to add, but you undermine your own posts by resorting to patronising, egotistical insults. If you knew Labman as a person and knew how committed he is to helping others, you wouldn't dream of speaking to him in the way you have.
I find the whole way you have conducted this debate very contrary to the principles of LB.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Under what regulation is that?


Prove to this forum, the magistrates court has ever said a defendant is liable for the fees of the enforcement contractor


Oh jeez! I cant believe I am seeing this stuff, you dig yourself deeper and deeper.

This is supposed to be a legal debate forum, and you come up with nonsense like that. .... and you say I should be on this forum?

Trying to ignore the insulting language.

This is a circular argument, the answers have already been given, the fact is that these charges are being made, if you can show a case where these fees have been successively challenged perhaps we can look at it.

D

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Go here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...600#post284600

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Go here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...600#post284600

HC

Linking to statements you yourself have made is not proof, all it proves is that you believe it , we already know that. Perhaps if you could provide a link to some authoritive source that shares your beliefs.

I think this has been exhausted now.

D

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Perhaps if you could provide a link to some authoritive source that shares your beliefs.

Section 76 of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 (issue of the Warrant of Distress) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/43/section/76

Part 52 of the Criminal Procedures Rules 2011. (rules for Enforcement of fines and other ORDERS for payment)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...9/part/52/made

Section 92 of the Courts Act 2003 (A Costs Order or a Fees Order is required for defendants to be liable for bailiffs fees) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/39/section/92

Section 38 of Schedule 5 of the Courts Act 2003 (provides list of further steps a court can take against a defendant for non payment of fines) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...5/paragraph/38

The Magistrates' Courts (Civilian Fine Enforcement Officers) (No. 2) Rules 1990 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/2260/contents/made

Section 92 of the Access to Justice Act 1999 (Execution of Warrants) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on-of-warrants



A defendant aggrieved by bailiffs fees £85/215 for executing warrants for unpaid court fines can therefore challenge the enforcement fees with a letter like this one:

The Court Manager
[NAME OF] Magistrates' Court
Address 1
Address 2
Address 3
Postcode

[DATE]

Dear Sir,

FORMAL COMPLAINT

Re: [YOUR NAME + FINE REFERENCE]


I received a document from a company called [NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] on [DATE] who said they are acting on your behalf collecting an unpaid court fine of [AMOUNT].

(IF APPLICCABLE) I paid the sum of [AMOUNT OF FINE+£300 FEE and] their document was presented in manner that is designed to mislead me into believing I have been ordered by the court to pay your enforcment contractors' fees of [AMOUNT/£85] [and a further £215] in ADDITION to the fine.

HMCTS official advice leaflet called EX345, published by the Court Service says Page 5; they do not charge me for the work they do.

The Distress Warrant, issued in the Magistrates Court under Section 76 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980 orders me to pay the amount I was fined, but it does not include an order I pay the fees of your enforcement contractor.

There is no order made by the court that made me liable for your contractors fees.

As the company said they were working under a contract, on behalf of HMCTS and I accepted their document to be truthful and honest in regards to the amount the court orderd me to pay.


However, I now understand that:

a) the terms of the contract, which is called the HMCTS Enforcement Services Contract, only enables enforcement contractors to deduct sums from the fine recovered, but there is no clause that enables them to obtain money from me had I have not been ordered to pay.

b) Under Section 38 of Schedule 5 of the Courts Act 2003 which prescribes a list of further steps a court can take for the enforcment of unpaid fines, does not provide for the making of an order against defendants to pay the fees of an enforcment contractor or other company.


In making this complaint, I confirm that:

a) I am not an agreed party to the HMCTS Enforcement Services Contract, and therefore I have no contractual obligation under it.

b) I have not been ordered by a court to pay the fees of the enforcement contractor or other company

c) I have not been means tested or assessed as to my ability to pay any fees at all.

d) Part 52 of the Criminal Procedure Rules 2011 does not apply in this case, because there is no order for payment for the contractors' fees, and the contractors' fees do not constitute a fine.

d) No goods belonging to me have been distressed by the contractor.


COMPLAINT RESOLUTION

a) Provide a written list of non-consolidated list of fines that have been made against me along with their respective amounts, any amounts paid, dates and name of the sentencing court.

b) Return the case to HMCTS administratrion

and:

If a costs order has been made against me requiring that I pay the fees of the enforcement contractor:

c) A copy of the order along with the adjudged amount, any amount paid, date and name of the court making the order.

If you are unable or unwilling to satisfy all this complaint, please clearly mark your response letter at the top with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to intervene.

Please note, that in the absence of the final resolution letter from you within 40 days of today's date, then I will automatically escalate the complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman for failure to comply with prescribed complaints procedures.

This letter is not a request under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

Yours Faithfully


[YOUR NAME]
Encs:
Copy of enforcement contractors' document.
(If applicable) Payment of balance of the fine amount/Proof of payment of the fine.

cc [NAME OF MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT] MP, Enforcement contractor. For information only

The final result is something like this:

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Hi
HC
Yes we have seen this, we are aware of these regulations, we have seen your letter( which could be the result of a any number of scenarios by the way, and fools no one).

Could you provide proof or some other authoritive source which will support your contentions.

Sorry this is going no where.

really my last post on this unless some relevant information is presented.

D

[miliitant]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

i myself am getting rather annoyed at this argument now.
i am not criticising anybody.
All sides are putting up concise logical arguments to support their points of view.
i know myself nothing on baliff law and i do not like seeds of doubt rumbling in my mind.

as stated before

we need statute/caselaw/contractual detalis to end this once and for all

someone must be right and someone must be mistaken, to continue to push one sides point of view across without validation, even with good intentions can be dangerous, so why dont we just call a truce until we have something in writing from the horses mouth direct

easier said than done i know, but this is just plain silly

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

That's why I'm putting in a FOIA request to the MoJ.

[miliitant]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

brill

[labman]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

.... and until that time the LB stance is to protect its posters by not exposing them to unnecessary risks. I think this is what we have been trying to say. Once the FOI is back and we have proven case law to back it, great. Until then, we err on the side of caution.

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

I would appreciate details of incidents involving Marston Group bailiffs enforcing court fines to put to the MoJ. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about peeps being assaulted, intimidated and lied to by this out-of-control company. The sooner the MoJ are told and, hopefully, do something about it, the better. If necessary, I will go to the media and see what Chris Grayling has to say. I can't see him being too keen to be seen or heard singing the praises of a thug outfit. The sooner fines enforcement is returned to HMCTS staff and police, the better.