Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

[buster1967]

Hi,
Could someone please advise us of what to do next

Son in law got a court fine , he then lost his job and buried his head in the sand and missed a few payments
He eventually contacted the court to explain he was now claiming job seekers allowance , the lady at court assured him she would send out a form for him to fill in for reduced payments .
The form never arrived, instead what arrived was a marstons letter, distress warrant, it gave him 7 days to pay,

It says he owes £100 which is the balance of the fine, and £85 marstons admin fee, and will incur a further £215 if a bailiff attends

He missed the 7 day deadline, its now about 2 weeks since the letter arrived, but he has now got the money together to pay the £100 fine and £85 admin fee, however when he rang Marstons to pay, they said he now owes the £215 on top too as he didnt meet the 7 day deadline, no bailiff as yet attended the property so can they add on this £215 attendance fee ?

He was told by marstons to speak to the bailiff direct, which he did, the bailiff says he will come round to talk to him next week when hes in the area ,
Im thinking this is just a ploy so the bailiff can claim the £215 attendance fee,

Can my son in law pay now , ie just the £100 fine and £85 marstons fee, and if so who does he pay as Marstons wouldnt take the £185 payment as they said it was now £ 400 not the original £185 ,

This seems so unfair as he hasnt had a bailiff visit yet so why should he have to pay the extra £215 , and the longer it goes on the more chance of a bailiff actually visiting and activating the attendance fee,
Ive advised him to record any conversation he has with marstons,
Any help much appreciated on where to go from here

Thanks

Buster

[Nic]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

I can not answer this directly but I know there are wonderful people on here who will be able to advise you on what needs to be done however in my personal opinion as no bailiff has attended I would've thought the 215 would be illegal

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Hi Buster,

There is something seriously wrong here. Commercial bailiff companies enforcing fines on behalf HMCTS deduct their fees from the fine due. The cost of enforcement is incorporated into fines. The £85 Administration Fee and £215 Attendance Fee will go straight into the bailiff's pocket and Marston Group will, effectively, be paid twice. That is illegal. Your son needs to contact the court that imposed the fine, immediately, and ask to speak to the Court Manager. What he needs the Court Manager to do is confirm that the cost of enforcing the fine is incorporated into the fine and that Marston Group is paid by HMCTS. He needs to get that confirmed by email and/or letter, if at all possible. Come back onto this thread once your son has done this.

BB

[chrissy01]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

I was told by the legal advice service that this isnt the case and that the fees are payable due to late payment on fines!
What are the instances that the fine would be paid? I have noted on the court document it stipulates that they are payable.

[buster1967]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

I'm afraid your legal adviser is wrong.

Section 76 of the Magistrates Courts Act 1980 is the legislation that provides for the issue of a Distress Warrant, and the document will show the amount you must pay.

There is currently no legislation that sets statutory fees for bailiffs collecting unpaid court fines.

So, why is the bailiff charging £200+ fees? - That is because they work under an Enforcement Services Contract with HMCTS, which enables them to deduct an agreed schedule of fees from the amount you are fined and pay the balance to the court.

That schedule currently agrees a fee of £215 for attending, and £85 for a letter. However, that contract is not legally enforceable on you, the defendant, because the parties of the contract are only HMCTS and the bailiff company.

If you pay a bailiff the schedule of fees, the bailiff company is paid twice and your money goes straight into the bailiffs pocket. Bailiffs will always try it on, and hope you are not aware of the scam. Bailiffs will try and pester you into paying the fees.

Court staff may also try it on and even mislead you that you are actually liable for the bailiffs fees - until they discover that you are better informed, or make a written formal complaint.

You may notice the bailiffs letter does not actually tell you that you have to pay the fees, it just a printed fee schedule on the document giving the ILLUSION you are liable for the fees.


Send this letter to the court service and it usually puts the matter quietly to bed.

Thanks for help guys /ladies
Much appreciated

[chrissy01]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Does it matter who delivered the letter and what type of enforcement officer attended as this is where my confusion lies as I noted on a document previously it said dependant on the type HECO or CEO would lay with wether payment would be made or has this changed now?

I just phoned marstons up and they said that it was a "attending officer / postal officer " that came to the door ?

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

It doesnt matter who delivered the document. There is no statutory charge for it anyway.

[buster1967]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Son in law tried ringing the court, was permanantly engaged, really frustrating,
He rang Marstons back, and after a war of words told them there was no way he was going to be ripped off for £215 attendance fee that hadnt happened ,
the lady said she would check with the bailiff to check our claims that he hadnt yet visited their home,
She advised to ring back, which he did and she agreed he hadnt called and they would accept £185 , ie £100 fine and £ 85 fee
To be honest after reading comments here I personally wouldnt have paid any fee, but he just wanted it off his back,

Im tempted to write to the court/Marstons though asking for a refund of the fee as its not a statutory fee,
Is this likely to achieve a refund or is it not worth the hassle,?

Thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

You would be better asking for the name of the HMCTS Contracts Manager for your area. You need to contact HMCTS HQ in London for the necessary contact details. Putting this manager in the picture as to what Marston Group are up to could seriously kill their pig and, possibly, their contract with HMCTS could end up being terminated or not renewed.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

:focus: do we have any news to clear the matter up from the HMCTS Enforcement Manager BB, which may be more use for the OP?

He will get the same answer I got.

There are no statutory bailiffs fees on court fines.

TT got busted well & truly over that when she became confused between the difference between fees and costs. She then started a vendetta of bad mouthing me to JBW Group and the bailiff trade association, who then tried to get lawyers shut down DWB.

DWB would never exist if bailiffs did not cheat families who are struggling to make ends meet.

If any new law is introduced in the meantime that forces defendants to pay bailiffs fees on unpaid court fines, then it would need to repeal chunks of the Criminal Procedure Rules because defendants are required to be means tested.

[bluebottle]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Okay. ANY form of dodgy behaviour, including violence, on the part of certificated bailiffs enforcing on behalf of HMCTS should be reported to the police, if criminal behaviour is involved, AND reported to the HMCTS Enforcement Manager for the area in which a fine debtor resides. In fact, ANY dodgy behaviour involving certificated bailiffs under contract to HMCTS should be reported to the HMCTS Enforcement Manager for the area in which the fine debtor resides.

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Puffrose as asked you to quit. Please do so.

[Inca]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

The OP is trying to establish that the bailiff HAS NOT ATTENDED YET THEREFORE THE £215.00 fee IS NOT VALID,,......YET!!! and asking HOW TO PREVENT THE BAILIFF ROCKING UP AND CHARGING THE FEE,,CAN SOMEONE HELP THE OP BY ADVISING HOW TO STOP THE VISIT?? Thankyou

[Guest]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

How can the £215 be payable if Billybailiff aint been yet? or am I totally missing the point?

The £215 is not due until the visit, have you had a look at the guide, the advice given on the official LB gude is to contact the fines officer at the court and attempt to arrange a means inquiry hearing http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-Courts-Fines .

The advise according to others on this thread is to send them a letter and say that you dont agree that you owe any fee, because there is no statutory fee stated in any legislation.

D

[Celestine]

Re: Urgent advice needed re marstons distress warrant

Right. I am splitting this thread so that it can be debated away from the OP's original question. Naturally I shall provide a link so that he can see it if need be.

The Bailiff Guide was recently re-written.
The information contained within it is up to date and is the method Legal Beagles advocate as a sensible course of action. Happy Contrails has raised some interesting points and I sincerely hope that his view has merit, but to date I have not seen hard evidence so until I do I will not change the Bailiff templates.

However, the debate that has continued on this thread DOES raise important issues, I would sincerely hope that when helpful PROOF is forthcoming, everyone can work together to provide the victims with correct guidance. Until then I will not advocate 'guinea pig' approaches with our members.