Equita Notice Of Seizure

[elffie]

Hi and sorry this has to be my first post asking for advice

We have an outstanding council tax balance of abut £700 (will have to check) which has now been passed to Equita

The bill is in my partners name only.

£200 has been paid off this balance ( £50 directly to council online & £150 directly to Equita online )
Last payment was in January due to work problems. This is now okay and we can restart making payments again

However today we have had a Bailiff Removal notice with no outstanding balance & a Notice of seizure,

-which lists 2 out of 3 motorbikes ( the one missing is my partners, the other 2 are mine in my name )
- a trampoline (which we were taking down to have the scrap men take away)
-and a garden table which has seen better days

The balance is apparently now £970 if paid today

the notice hasnt been signed and wont be if i have anything to do with it

Can anyone help me and advise, Equita letter states they wont accept any arrangements. having looked at previous letters they have posted they all state this. Also I have read that they can only charge for 2 visits, is this the case even if they have called more than twice ?

Can they take MY bikes ? they have levied on the stuff in the back garden, there is also a shed padlocked with the kids bikes in can they touch that ?

Im assuming they cant take his bike as it is on HP anyway


What are my steps to stop this notice please ? Should i speak to council or Equita ? confused but im sure there is something that I can do, seeing as the amount owed has now nearly doubled !

thanks in advance

Maxine

[Mrs James]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

Hi elffie and a warm welcome to LB!

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...67-Council-Tax

If you haven't already have a look at this guide. Any questions just feel free to ask and one our Bailiff experts will no doubt be along shortly.

[bluebottle]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

Hi Elffie,

It sounds like Equita's bailiffs were taught maths by the Brothers Grimm. You say the original CT debt was £700 and you have paid off £200, leaving £500. Under the Council Tax (Enforcement and Administration) Regulations 1992, the fees bailiffs are permitted to charge legitimately are £24.50 for the 1st visit and £18.00 for the 2nd visit. Levies are governed on a sliding scale, based on a percentage, which is governed by the statutory instrument referred to earlier in this post and the link provided by Mrs James. By my calculations, the amount outstanding should be no more than £651 (approx.) at the most, including the local authority's court costs. Equita are going to have to explain how £651 has become £970, a difference of £319. You certainly need to send them a letter asking for a breakdown of fees. I would not be surprised if Equita have indulged in some "creative accounting".

As for what bailiffs can and cannot take, they are not allowed to take anything that clearly belongs to or is intended for a child and certainly not anything belonging to a third party or subject to HP. Your local authority is 100% vicariously liable for the actions of Equita's bailiffs, as Equita is acting as their agents. Get a letter off to Equita asap asking for a breakdown of fees. There should be a template letter in the link provided by Mrs James.

[elffie]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

thanks for your replies

Im guessing they can take the bikes as in motorbikes as they are mine ? how do i stop them taking them in 5 days which is Weds ? or is it 5 working days. I will be out at work and therefore wont be able to stop them if they arrive.

So my steps now are letter to Council for info that they have on the account as per letter in link and one to Equita for the same info and breakdown of charges. So will this hold the levy ?

The levy states amount owing £900 bailiff cost £223.50 payable if paid today £970.50 is there a way of stopping the notice of seizure ?

Srry just dont want them taking my stuff when im not in the house or even when im in it

should i pay a lump sum in the meantime ? i can muster £200 together for monday

[teaboy2]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

move what they have levvied to a friends house! especially the motorbikes.

P.s. if the amount is wrong then i believe the levy would be invalid to as a result.

[wales01man]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

i would do as teaboy says when they turn up say bikes? what bikes? Please let us all know their reaction make us all laugh

[elffie]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

again thanks for the replies

so let me get this straight in my head

I do both a letter to equita and to council as per the link above - thanks for that

Move both bikes ( am i allowed to do this ? )
the other bike can stay I'm assuming as there is no notice on it and it is on HP anyway. They can take the trampoline lol, was going to be dismantling it this week to make way for a bike shed, will save me some time and work !
Can they get into my shed if it is padlocked ? can they take anything that isnt on the notice ?

Can anyone please give me an idea if the amount they have put on the notice is incorrect ?
When will they return ? Exactly 5 days from notice ( working days ?) ? or when they feel fit ?
If I state in both letters that i have sent letters to all concerned will this halt the notice ?

Sorry for the questions lol but much appreciate the replies !

[Galahad]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

move all the bikes, the fact that one bike isn't yours and is on HP wouldn't necessarily stop a sneaky bailiff taking it anyway, and then challenging you to prove it, which could take weeks.

So move them all away from the property, and make sure if you're not around the house during the day, the house is locked up nice and tight, leave no windows unlocked/open whatsoever.

[elffie]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

ok let me just make something a little clearer. The debt is solely in my partners name and the bike on HP is his in his name. The two bikes that are on the notice are mine and not on HP. Can they still take the two that are mine ?

Not sure if that will make a difference

[wales01man]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

Those in the know on here will no doubt advise that bailiff thugs take anything they think they can take take their advice move the bikes and do all they suggest

[teaboy2]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

again thanks for the replies

so let me get this straight in my head

I do both a letter to equita and to council as per the link above - thanks for that

Move both bikes ( am i allowed to do this ? )
the other bike can stay I'm assuming as there is no notice on it and it is on HP anyway. They can take the trampoline lol, was going to be dismantling it this week to make way for a bike shed, will save me some time and work !
Can they get into my shed if it is padlocked ? can they take anything that isnt on the notice ?

Can anyone please give me an idea if the amount they have put on the notice is incorrect ?
When will they return ? Exactly 5 days from notice ( working days ?) ? or when they feel fit ?
If I state in both letters that i have sent letters to all concerned will this halt the notice ?

Sorry for the questions lol but much appreciate the replies !

The amount they are after should be around £650 including their fees for the letters. Also they can only charge fee's if they actually visited your property and knocked on the door and tried to speak to you. Them simply sending letters via the post or by just putting them through the letter box without knocking, would invalidate the fee. So basically as they are after over £900 from you then its likely they have charged you unlawful fees therefore the levvy on the motobikes and other items would be invalid and by taking your goods they would be doing so unlawfully.

No they can not break into your shed, they can not break into your home either (though they will likely threaten to come back with a lock smith).

Move the bikes to a friends house, including the one that was not levvied as chances are they will try take that one instead.

Get the letter sent to the council and the letter to the bailiffs asking for break down off the fees, as that will show you exactly what fees they have charged you.

[ploddertom]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

The request for info from the Council can be done over the phone on Monday morning. Sending off for a breakdown of the charges should be done initially by email followed with a copy in the post.

If you live together at this address as husband & wife or partners then despite only 1 name being on the paperwork you will be found to be jointly & severally liable. Therefore your goods are liable to seizure & could be removed for sale. Has the Bailiff listed your bikes correctly - make, model, colour & reg no?

[Debtfix]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

Equita cannot take any of your property if you are not the debtor. Please refer to the Tribunals Courts and Tribunals Act 2007 Part 2 paragraphs 9 and 10. which states that property siezed has to be in the possession of the debtor ie owned by the named person responsible for the debt. It remains your responsibility to show that you alone own the property disputed. There is a principle of "joint pleasure " in which it is assumed that a married couple jointly own property ie a sofa for their joint use (pleasure) and it does not matter who actually bought it. However this does not apply to "partnered" arrangements. As far as the bikes are concerned they will be checked against DVLA records and may not be removed.

I notice that you received two letters in the space of 10 minutes. TC&E 2007 part 2 paragraph 7 applies and refers to the notice period allowed to let the debtor make payment before the bailiff can act. Normally this is seven days.

Paragraph 3 subsection (a) is interesting because the amount outstanding is not specified (loadsa money foe lawyers arguing this one!) being mean minded I would interpret this to mean the debt owed to the council because the bailiff has done nothing to earn his fee at this stage. So there is a window during which payments made to the council can avoid all bailiff fees except those agreed by the council for the first & second visit.

It is rare for councils to allow property to be removed for council tax arrears. Is the paper work in order from the bailiff? Have they made peaceable entry into your property? Have they conducted a levy, identifying items within the home? Did you sign anything? Goods belonging to children can be siezed IF they are in common parts of the house ie Lounge.

Bailiffs are getting lazy. They can do this because lay people do not know the rules. A new client of mine has been told to ignore the bailiff calling on her. I have a text from him proving that he did not conduct a proper levy and I quoted "Evans v South Ribble Borough Council 1991" which will now see him off.

A bailiff MUST achieve peaceful entry into your premises in order to be able to return and re-enter your property (See Central London County Court 8CL15015 Judge Advent). If this has not happened he has no right of re-entry. If he has gained that right you need to complain to the council employing him for the use of bad language to you, or acting in anyway that might be considered unprofessional. They may take you off the bailiff list. Are you ill? This would mean you are a vulnerable person and a new set of rules applies to you. Also if you are on benefit or a low income.

If there is no peaceable entry and he attempts to enter your property after you have told him that you will not allow him entry he then commits an offence if he tries to push past you or attempts to enter your property against your will. So it is best for you not to open the front door to speak to him/her. It is difficult to prove such an assault and the police rarely respond in such cases.

The council cannot refuse to accept money provided from you to a third party. The Office of Fair Trading guidelines (2003) state quite clearly that "it is a princple of law that if a third party tenders a sum of money from a debtor to a creditor the creditor MUST accept it". I built my consultancy on that gem. So a friend can pay money to the council to reduce your debt. If there is no debt then the bailiff has no reason to call upon you. So pay your debt to the council and he is history. I do this on magistrates fines too, but the issues are not so clear cut.

If you have signed an agreement with the bailiff your position is more difficult but not impossible. Complain to the council as above. Tell them of your vulnerability, disability, illness, anything to get them to agree to take your case back from the bailiff, do it in writing, fax or email.

I have proof of fee farming by our local bailiffs Ross and Roberts. They refuse to provide accounts in timely fashion and the result in one of my cases was that they charged £163 charge for an outstanding debt of £39.00 and all because they did not advise my client of the amount remaining. So Amethyst's advice not to deal with bailiffs is VERY sound. If you make a complaint directly against a bailiff use Form 4, You will get a hearing at your local county court. You need legal advice for this action.

So the charges you are experiencing you may have to pay; the only way I know to avoid them is to get your case reassigned to the council.

My advice is always ignore the bailiffs then you limit their charging ability to £42.50 first and second visit charge. After that they cannot charge.

I am constantly campaigning against these bailiff firms. Our bailiff manager rode around his domain in a helicopter paid for from the fees extracted from the poor people in my city. He is now retired, early. As companies grow larger they become more profit hungry as they need to provide more services to their employees. You know where these profits come from, its YOU. We HAVE to refuse every bailiff collecting council tax. Pay the tax but not through the bailiff. GET THE MESSAGE OUT. Resist the bailiff at all times. debtfix.999 (at) btinternet.com

[elffie]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

again thank you guys for taking the time out to reply.

I havent opened the door or spoken to the bailiffs, they knocked on the door then posted a letter, then they posted the notice 10 mins later. notice has not been signed.

We are not married, just common law partners, so i am still unsure if they can take the bikes as they are in my name solely

The bikes are outside in the back garden, there is half a fence up but no gate so he could walk in freely to the garden, is that peaceful entry and if so im assuming he can come back in again.

Is the fee of £223.50 on the notice incorrect then ? Should i mention this to the council as unlawful fees on the account and tell them to take the debt back as they are liable for the conduct of the bailiffs ? as they are agents of the council ?

Im trying to find somewhere for the bikes but struggling, anyone in Coventry lol with a garage ?


Ok i have just read elsewhere on the forum that it isnt a legal levy if they havent gained peaceable entry to the premises ? Is the notice the same as a levy ? (sorry if im dumb) and is them stepping onto my back garden without my permision peaceable entry ?

[pepsie]

Re: Equita Notice Of Seizure

again thank you guys for taking the time out to reply.

I havent opened the door or spoken to the bailiffs, they knocked on the door then posted a letter, then they posted the notice 10 mins later. notice has not been signed. They can class the 'letter' as a visit, if it was the first and only'letter'put through your door then it is classed as a 1st Visit and the fee to that is £24.50

We are not married, just common law partners, so i am still unsure if they can take the bikes as they are in my name solely as PT has said the Council will view your 'co habiting' to be CT is a joint liability....proving it is a whole new ball game.


The bikes are outside in the back garden, there is half a fence up but no gate so he could walk in freely to the garden, is that peaceful entry and if so im assuming he can come back in again. that is only peaceful entry to your garden not your dwelling

Is the fee of £223.50 on the notice incorrect then ? NO Should i mention this to the council as unlawful fees on the account and tell them to take the debt back as they are liable for the conduct of the bailiffs ? as they are agents of the council ? YES but they will come back and say the bailffs halo is in place their gowns are whiter than white and they won't take the debt back in house. Trust me, there is no quick fix to dealing with the Council or Equita, be prepared for a good few rounds of letter tennis before moving up the ladder to the formal complaints platform Im trying to find somewhere for the bikes but struggling, anyone in Coventry lol with a garage ?If the goods allegedly levied are yours and the liability order to the CT is in your partners name, then the easiest thing to do is draw up a Stat Dec to you being the legal owner of the bikes (and anything else in the property solely owned by you) and take it along to any high street solicitor and get it 'notorised' (signed by them following you swearing an oath) send a copy of that to both the Council and the Bailffs.



Ok i have just read elsewhere on the forum that it isnt a legal levy if they havent gained peaceable entry to the premises ? Is the notice the same as a levy ? (sorry if im dumb) and is them stepping onto my back garden without my permision peaceable entry ?

Follow the well trodden path and to start:
First you need to establish the facts,so with pen at the ready ring them and ask:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

Next is the breakdown to those fees:

"From:
My Name
My Address
To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House
Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.
Yours faithfully
Ripped off customer"

If the bailiffs are Equita then it is also a strong possibilty the Council employ Capita to run the back room to collect among other things CT. Capita are the parent company of Equita, so straight away you are not going to get heard by the right people as they have a vested interest in all of this.

Personally I see Equita/Capita relationship to give you a good reason to write to the Council and express the fact 'you have every reason to call their appointed agents into disrepute following what can clearly be seen as attempts to impose unauthorised fees'. I would then go on to tell them you will not entertain their agents and shall in future make payment to the sum of £xxx every week/month on xxx date direct to the Council.

Make payment to the amount you have given to them straight away by using their online payment facilities and stick to doing that religiously while trying to sort fact from fiction regarding the fees.

As I said there is no 'Quick Fix' to sorting this but while you attempt to do so, by paying a regular amount to the Council prevents them from going to the extreme and applying for a commital order. Regular payment = you are then seen to be a 'can't pay' as opposed to a 'won't pay' with the latter being the only grounds to further action ie; commital order.

Pepsie