Council Tax - Commital to Prison

[therico]

Hi Everyone

I have been making payments to a company called Bristow and Sutor for an oustanding council tax debt.

The original agreement i had with them was to pay £350 a month.
I then lost my job and was offered a place at university which i took and started the course.
At the time i lost my job i informed the bailiffs that i needed to agree a new repayment plan which was settled at £100 a month.

This was only a temporary arrangement, as this was coming to an end i contacted the bailiff via post to attempt to agree an extension to the current agreement or a new figure, this letter was lost in the post and unfortunately this resulted in a payment being missed.

As soon as i was aware a oayment was missed i contacted the bailiff to try and resolve the matter. they asked me to complete a form showing my income, which i did. The only income i have at the moment is a student loan as i have so far been unsuccessful in securing further employment.

The bailiff came back with an unreasonable payment offer of £670 within 5 working days, and two further payments of £600.

Firstly, i am unsure why the amount is so high as this was around what was owing at the outset and i have paid aropund £7-800 to them so far.

Secondly, as i only recieving a student loan i am unable to make payments to the bailiffs of this huge amount, it was more than they accepted when i was working full time.

I have responded to the bailiff to explain that i will not be able to make a payment of this amount and also sent them a copy of letter detauling my student finance arrangements. I am waiting for a reply, but this was only emailed to them on Satrday the 25th Feb.

In the email where they made the offer of £670 they state that if i am to miss a payment , the debt will be referred back to the council who will apply for my comittal to prison. As i am clearly unable to pay the amounts asked for in such lump sums i am worried. I have been making attempts topay. Aswell as sending the information to the bailiff i have also copied in the council.

Please Help

[cards down]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

Fear not therico, you have come to the right place, here you will find an abundance of advice that will help you through your ordeal. Help is on its way.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
You also need to send off for a breakdown of the fees the Bailiff has charged. Here's an example of what to use send by email initially followed by a letter in the post, adapt as you see fit:

"From:
My Name
My Address

To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

Email for B&S is enquiries@bristowsutor.co.uk

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

This kind of thing makes my blood BOIL!!

A magistrates court will NOT commit anyone to prison for non-payment of council tax if it is clear that the debtor is unable to pay. However, councils and their bailiffs rely on the fact that a court can in theory commit to prison in order to frighten debtors into finding some way to pay - such as going to a payday loan company !!

The whole thing makes me sick. Councils and their revenue departments are staffed, in my experience, by employees whose natural inclination is to assume that non-payers do so out of choice, turning a blind eye to those who simply cannot.

Morover, all councils should operate a discount scheme under Section 13 of the Local Government Finance Act but, in my experience, they do not advertise this at all and will only acknowledge that it exists and that discounts are considered when pressed.

Therico - the reason your bill has ramped up is because the bailiff will have slapped a load of charges on to it. These charges are prescribed and the council or bailiff should have sent you a list of what they are and when they are applied. However, in my experience, bailiffs add charges for letters that are not sent or, most alarmingly, for visits that are not made. In fact I sued a firm of bailiffs (not for council tax but the same phantom charging) successfully a few years ago. One of the charges they added was for van hire for collection of possessions, but they had turned up on the day in question in the bailiff's Nissan Micra...

My advice to you would be this;

1. Do not discuss anything further with the bailiff. Do not speak to them and do not allow them into your home.

2. Contact the council. Make a complaint to them. Tell them you will no longer discuss with the bailiff. Explain everything and ask for a discount to be considered under the LGFA. Remind them that a court will not commit to prison where non-payment is due to financial hardship and is not connected with refusal to pay and that it is wrong for you to be threatened with commital on that basis.

3. Ask to see all the liability orders that must have been obtained by the council in order to pass the matter to the bailiffs. If there are no such orders, the council has broken the law in referring to bailiffs (but it is likely that the orders do exist).

4. Make sure you are paying your current council tax DD as that will really assist.

5. Also tell the council that the debt should be returned to them as you are not able to deal any more with the bailiffs. If the council refuse then just make a payment to them each month - if they don't return it to you then they have accepted the payment arrangement.

(And do the stuff that ploddertom suggests).

HTH
LA

[ploddertom]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

In the email where they made the offer of £670 they state that if i am to miss a payment , the debt will be referred back to the council who will apply for my comittal to prison. As i am clearly unable to pay the amounts asked for in such lump sums i am worried. I have been making attempts topay. Aswell as sending the information to the bailiff i have also copied in the council.

Please Help

This is just a threat and it has had the desired effect as you are here asking for help. You have a payment history that can be proved so further action by the Council may be difficult.

If it were me I would pay the Council direct via online banking, Council website or automated phone line. You would need all the relevant reference numbers to do this. Alternatively you can pay in cash at the Council, if this is refused you politely ask for the name & position of the person who refuses as it will then form the basis of a complaint against the Council.

[therico]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

Hi
Thanks for the replies

After posting this i made a phone call to the council to explain the situation, they are going to call me back when the appropriate person is available. The lady i spoke to in the revenues department seemed to think that they would be able to ask the bailiff to accept my offer of £200 a month and this would be ok. I had previously emailed the council and they had the email waiting to be replied to.

So fingers crossed they will be able to do this for me, as they have acknowledged my willingness to pay.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

In the meantime, just in case they don't call back, show your goodwill by making the proposed payments direct to the council. This will go a long way towards them helping you.

[therico]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

I am currently exempt from paying council tax as i live alone and i am a full time student so i believe i have done all i can at the moment, the council should be calling me back sometime today, i will be calling them at about 4pm if ive not heard from them

[therico]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

I have just recieved contact from the council, who have informed me they will be instructing the bailiffs to accept the payment amount that i have offered, i should be recieving written confirmation of this over the next few days.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

Excellent news - well done you!

[pepsie]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

and are you happy to be paying blindly to a figure you have not confirmed with the Council but deemed to be owed by B&S and happy to pay Fees you are not liable for?

PT gave you advice based on the fact it is more than just likely the fees you have paid to B&S would probably be so questionable your actual debt will be reduced by a considerable amount when challenged.

Pepsie

[labman]

Re: Council Tax - Commital to Prison

Excellent point Pepsie. The OP definitely needs to send the letter at the bottom half of post 3.