Advice please

[philh]

Hello All

Thanks to the tremendous advice I received on here I managed to sort my own Bailiff problems out, in turn, I have been able to help other people with similar problems, with fantastic results, again, all due to this forum, thank you. However they have all been council tax issues. The daughter of a friend of mine has a problem, she is in blind panic, and as it is a magistrates fine, I am a little unsure of my ground, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


She was fined £80 for drunk and disorderley or something similar.

She is on benifits, a single mother, 18 years of age and ignored the fine, did absolutely nothing about it, told her mum she had paid it etc.....

Anyway the upshot is that the Bailiffs are demanding £450 by tomorrow or they are "going to smash the door down and take the goods in the house" They say they have all the warrents to do this ( spoke only on the telephone)

Now, after reading the posts on this site, i find that extremely unlikley, as I understand it they haven't been in the house.


Any advice i can relay would be greatly appreciated, she is in absolute bits


Thanks in anticipation

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice please

Does she still live at the same address as she did when fined? Has she had a Final Steps Notice from the issuing Court?

[charitynjw]

Re: Advice please

Hi philh

Perhaps the bailiff has been too busy to read the recent National Standards for Enforcement Agents recently released by the Ministry of Justice.
Especially the bit referring to vunerable persons, which includes single parent families.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...ent-agents.pdf

[philh]

Re: Advice please

Thanks for the reply's

Plodderton- I really don't know, her head is so far buried in the sand it is unreal, she is so immature, think she hid the letters and can't find them, makes you want to walk away and say it's your own fault but both her and her mum are distraught and genuinely frightened and tha bailiffs are being complete bullies, she is at the same address, although so frightened staying with her mum at the moment.


Charitynjw- thanks, i thought about the vulnerable persons bit but just wondered about the immediate problems she may face tomorrow, once over that i will write all the letters and use everything I can for her

Thanks again

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice please

The Bailiff has to gain peaceful entry - it is true that a Mag Court Fine carries a forced entry but in reality he does need a Court Order allowing him to do so and cannot imagine this has been done. It is all done to put the pressure on. Hopefully this will have given her a reality check. If she continues to totally ignore I would imagine they will issue an arrest warrant where she can be hauled before the Bench to explain - that's an extreme measure. I assume the house is not hers and if necessary her mum may need to swear a Stat Dec to that effect + ownership of goods inside.

If she is on Benefits she should contact the Court ASAP in the morning and speak to the Fines Officer or Court Manager and ask for a Means Hearing, she should also explain she is a single parent.

[charitynjw]

Re: Advice please

Hi ploddertom - would this be an N245/EX160? (this for my 'further education' in these matters)

[ploddertom]

Re: Advice please

Hi ploddertom - would this be an N245/EX160? (this for my 'further education' in these matters)

No - they are for County Court matters.

The N245 would be for Variation Order whereby a Court can decide how much per month you pay, it can also be used to Suspend a Warrant of Execution issued to the County Court Bailiff.

The EX160 is for those who may be able to gain exemption from paying Court Fees.

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice please

The Bailiff has to gain peaceful entry - it is true that a Mag Court Fine carries a forced entry but in reality he does need a Court Order allowing him to do so and cannot imagine this has been done. It is all done to put the pressure on. Hopefully this will have given her a reality check. If she continues to totally ignore I would imagine they will issue an arrest warrant where she can be hauled before the Bench to explain - that's an extreme measure. I assume the house is not hers and if necessary her mum may need to swear a Stat Dec to that effect + ownership of goods inside.

If she is on Benefits she should contact the Court ASAP in the morning and speak to the Fines Officer or Court Manager and ask for a Means Hearing, she should also explain she is a single parent.

It's not unusual for a Magistrates' Court to issue what is known as a "Bench Warrant" for non-payment of fines. This means the police will turn up on her doorstep, without warning, arrest her and take her into custody. I'm sorry this sounds brutal, but that is the reality. I executed Bench Warrants for non-payment of fines when I was a policeman.

Ring the court first thing tomorrow morning, without fail, and check whether bailiffs have been authorised to make a forcible entry. If they haven't, follow the advice given by Charitynjw and Plodderton with regard to vulnerable persons. Also, make sure the Court Manager knows about the bailiff's threats if no forcible entry warrant has been issued.

It might also be worth ringing the bailiff firm, after you've spoken to the Court Manager, and advise them no forcible entry has been authorised, if this is, indeed, the case. Make it clear to them that the court has been made aware of their threats and that the police will be called, should they act illegally or in breach of any warrant issued by the court, in any way.

If they treat this as a joke, I would forewarn your local police station as to what is happening and that they may be called upon to intervene in a possible Breach of the Peace.

Above all else, contact the court first thing tomorrow morning.

Bluebottle

[philh]

Re: Advice please

Thank you all so far

I will ensure she rings the court in the Morning.

To be honest being arrested might be the best option, i really hope she doesn't loose her property, when she was working, every penny she earned went into buying furniture for her house, sometimes working over 60 hours a week. unfortunately she was made redundant just before Christmas.

Thanks again, all advice is really appreciated

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice please

Redundancy not only reduces the amount of money coming in, it can affect your mental health, too. Losing employment is as traumatic as suffering a bereavement and some doctors compare loss of employment to a bereavement.

Having had experience of mental health issues in the past, myself, it would not surprise me if this young lady's behaviour has its roots in the redundancy she suffered just before Christmas, as your last post shows the young lady's behaviour is out of character for her. It would be wise to get her checked out by a doctor as any mental health issues could have a significant bearing on her situation. If she is suffering some sort of mental health issue, she may need to go into hospital for treatment. If it is necessary to section her under the Mental Health Act, this may be the best thing that could happen to her.

Being sectioned means that a person is unable to administer their own affairs, even if it is only temporarily. Such persons are deemed vulnerable and subject to the jurisdiction of the Public Guardian's Office and the Court of Protection. Subject to an order being made, any legal action, including bailiffs, would be stopped until such time as the young lady was deemed fit to be able to deal with the situation.

Whilst I hope this is helpful, I feel that it is best to have this young lady checked by a doctor before throwing her to the wolves.

[labman]

Re: Advice please

You are, as ever, correct BB, but it's quite rare for someone to be sectioned, and things areusually pretty severe before this happens.

However, if she is behaving out of character it will do no harm to see her GP.

Just to reiterate Phil, it is highly unlikely the bailiffs will have applied for a warrant to force entry at this stage. However, that must not let your friend's daughter get complacent. She needs to be proactive and sort this out before she is arrested.

Charity - there is a superb section on HM Courts website about the role of each of the forms. There's millions of them, but some which keep cropping up time and again.:beagle:

[bluebottle]

Re: Advice please

You are, as ever, correct BB, but it's quite rare for someone to be sectioned, and things areusually pretty severe before this happens.

However, if she is behaving out of character it will do no harm to see her GP.

Just to reiterate Phil, it is highly unlikely the bailiffs will have applied for a warrant to force entry at this stage. However, that must not let your friend's daughter get complacent. She needs to be proactive and sort this out before she is arrested.

Charity - there is a superb section on HM Courts website about the role of each of the forms. There's millions of them, but some which keep cropping up time and again.:beagle:

Quite agree, Labman.

Sectioning, under Section 2, Mental Health Act, is surprisingly common. It only lasts for 28 days so that a person's mental health can be assessed. Only those who are very ill are then sectioned under Section 3 of the Act, which is for six months, and these are usually the severe cases. The remainder are discharged back into the community with appropriate support.

The other category which exists under the Mental Health Act is that of a voluntary patient, who goes into hospital without legal compulsion.

There is, however, a caveat attached to the Mental Health Act. If a doctor or other healthcare professional, e.g. Registered Mental Health Nurse, is of the opinion that a person should be hospitalised and that person refuses to go into hospital voluntarily, the doctor or healthcare professional can ask the police to take that person to a place of safety, pending assessment by two doctors and an approved social worker. "Place of Safety" includes a hospital and a police station.

I hope that matters do not come to this, but it is something that cannot be ignored.