Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

[Scared Mother]

Hi

First time on here and any advice would be welcome - the following happened on Thursday:

My apologies if this seems emotional but I’m currently nursing my 9 week old daughter as I write, having not slept since the previous evening. I am extremely emotionally distressed and this is manifesting itself as not wanting anyone to touch me apart from her – this includes my mother and partner, wanting to hold her all the time and not wanting anyone near her and jumping at every noise. I don’t want to leave the house, currently have all the curtains joined, feel violated and just want to sit alone in the dark holding my daughter. This is a result of a bailiff sent from the court visiting yesterday for a debt that is not even mine.
· Yesterday at approximately 3.30pm my doorbell rang followed by a knock on the door
· I opened the window on the first floor to see who was there as I was nursing my 9 week old daughter to sleep
· The man said that he was an enforcement officer and that he was after my partner
· I explained he wasn’t here and there was just me and my 9 week old baby
· He asked me to come downstairs with some identification
· I opened the front door with my daughter visibly sleeping on my shoulder and said that I did not have to show any identification
· He then forced his foot against the front door, slamming it into me – narrowly missing my daughter and I only prevented this by grabbing the door
· He then tried to force the door
· My daughter woke and started crying
· I tried to close the door from the inside but he kept forcing it open trying to gain entry
· I struggled to close the door from the inside for about a minute, with my daughter still on my shoulder and trying to stop her getting crushed in the process
· I then slid through the door, again trying to avoid my daughter getting hurt, and held onto the handle from the outside – again trying to close it whilst the bailiff tried to force it open and past her
· I tried to move his foot off the door but couldn’t so I just kept trying to pull the door closed – by this time my daughter was crying & screaming – blatantly in distress – and choking on the tears and mucus etc
· I started shouting for help – my daughter was struggling – I was trying to keep her safe on my shoulder – whilst he continued to try force the door stating “he was coming in” and pushing against me
· One of my neighbours arrived back with her son and I screamed for her to help and to call the police which she duly did
· She came over and repeatedly said for him to leave me alone as I was carrying a newborn - this was repeated a minimum of 4 times
· I said “you’ve not been in the house you have no right to force your way in”
· He said his foot had been on the door when I opened it and therefore it’s classed as being in the house (his shoe tread is still on the front door I’m told)
· He then stopped trying to force his way in and past me and stood back where I immediately closed and locked the door and moved rapidly away from him towards my neighbor
· He had been so forceful and aggressive, I can’t explain how terrifying it had been for both of us
· He then said he had called a locksmith who would be arriving to change the locks and give him access
· My 9 week old was still screaming and my neighbor said for me to go into hers to try calm us both which I did whilst keeping the door open to check he didn’t break into the property
· Two PCSO’s then arrived so I returned to near my house
· I explained that he had not had access to the property and my neighbor had witnessed everything which she would testify to
· I explained regarding access to bailiffs as they didn’t know any legalities regarding this
· They explained he had a warrant from the court and that he stated he could enter
· I explained that the warrant did not allow him access but they said they didn’t want to say or do anything because they did not know who was right
· They then stated that the bailiff had called a locksmith to gain access and would it either not be easier to pay or call my partner
· I said ok – the baby was screaming and crying and couldn’t be pacified – I was trying to stay calm but was shaking so much I was struggling to hold her
· I then explained and asked the PCSO’s to witness that my partner would be filing an N245 form with the court as soon as I spoke to him – I explained to them and the bailiff it was a “stay on the warrant” and that he had to wait for further instruction – he said “you can file what you want but I’m still getting in that property” (Filed on Saturday 17th)
· I did not have a mobile or work number for my partner and obviously hadn’t picked up my mobile before I answered the door so I asked the officer to call 118118
· They asked where my partner worked and I told the officers( at this stage unknown to me – the bailiff had overheard this and tracked then rang my partner at work as a credit controller – which I understood is also against what they can/cannot do)
· The bailiff then attempted to access the rear of my property – he unlocked my side gate – then tried to force it as it has 2 locks – then climbed over a 6 foot fence to unlock the gate from the rear – before walking round the rear of the property
· I then went to my neighbors where I spoke to my partner – the baby was screaming so much – my neighbor tried to hold her but she couldn’t calm her – I then continued holding her – trying anything to pacify
· I said to my partner I could pay on credit card just because the whole situation was so traumatic and I was so worried about my daughter – I was too scared to try re-enter my home as the bailiff had made it clear that he would do anything to gain access
· The female PCSO came over as I was leaving to say the bailiff wanted to apologise for the distress he had caused the baby – it made it worse because he obviously knew he was in the wrong
· When I came out of my neighbours the police had arrived and tried to speak to me – I was so distraught and he couldn’t speak over top of my daughter’s crying/screaming so he said if we could go inside
· I said yes but we needed to make sure the bailiff did not enter – the officer and I came in and we tried to speak but again this was delayed due to the distress my 9 week old daughter was in
· The officer then went and spoke to the bailiff before returning to me
· He asked if I could pay and I explained only on credit card – he said at least the bailiff will then leave - I explained that I would pay but wanted him to witness it was under extreme duress – which he did
· My 9 week old had finally calmed enough for me to leave her and go downstairs to pay
· I paid £360 plus a credit card fee and was terrified of being left near the bailiff
· At one stage the PCSO’s and officer moved away to discuss another case and I started shaking so badly that I asked an officer to stand with me which she duly did
· The bailiff said there was another outstanding warrant of £395 but if I paid now then he would only charge me £195 – I said no
· He was completing various paper work which seemed to be taking a long time and I was conscious of the state of my daughter so I said I was going back inside and the bailiff could post anything further through the letter box
· The officer escorted me past the bailiff and I asked them to stay until he left
I have already explained the distress I’m still in – I can’t explain how upset I am and how unprofessional I feel he acted. My partner has huge debts of over £22,000 and has contacted all of his creditors (24) and set up payment plans unless they have been refused plus he is now being treated for depression. They are not my debts and my credit has always been excellent. I have owned the house in the residential village for 6 years and the contents have been bought or given during my lifetime. The only possessions that my partner owns literally are clothes, some books and some compact discs – he has never contributed or bought anything to the household apart from cash to cover half the household bills and he arrived 18 months ago with 4 suitcases only. Witnesses can be contacted from the officers who attended to the neighbor who, until this happened, I regretfully had never even spoken to. Until this happened I had never dealt with bailiff’s and only understood various points my partner had mentioned to me whilst sorting out his debt and with his credit work. Also a no stage did the bailiff show me any identification, explain the warrant or show any paperwork but please be aware – that I also did not ask as I was so distressed.

My concerns are that he now has access to my mother’s address as this is where my credit card is registered and he said he needed this information to process it – his ethics have already been shown by contacting my partner at work, and as she is nearly 70 and should not be contacted any more than I should. Also that although an N245 for has been sent for the other debt/warrant – as he did not understand what this was – any more than his office did when we called them – that he will attempt to gain entry when this has not been paid by the 22nd which is when he said he would be back.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I cannot believe how threatening and aggressive his behavior was in any situation – especially when someone who is obviously not the debtor has a 9 week old daughter in her arms and I would appreciate you taking the matter as seriously as possible as this agent was[/FONT][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] authorised[/FONT][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] by yourself. Whilst typing this I have been crying and nervously listening to every car that goes past in case he returns.[/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Any advice would be appreciated.[/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']SM x[/FONT]

[MEGLOS]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

:argue:

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

link

It should be interesting and it could be quite informative if one might learn why [the blessed Amy might] suppose regulations set out for the collection of Council Tax should govern the enforcement of a civil debt such as a decriminalised parking offence or, for that matter, the enforcement of a fine imposed by a magistrates' court.

No answer posted.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

It would be nice if, just once, you actually read something and digested it fully and tried to learn in order to help others, rather than cherry picking the parts you want to read and forming your superfluous reply into some 'witty' attempt at making me look silly while at the same time attempting to appear learned.

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Thank you Amy for claifying this, I know it sounds strange but that is exactly the reason the Bailiff will clamp and remove your car straight away if you don't pay him and very rarely will he make an arrangement to pay by installment for parking offences.

In other words, it really has nothing at all to do with the bailiff being an overbearing bully who habitually overcharges for his 'services'?

Absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with this and everything to do with the law.

See The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, Part VI - Enforcement (52(4). Relationship between remedies) if you want to read up on it.

link

It should be interesting and it could be quite informative if one might learn why you suppose regulations set out for the collection of Council Tax should govern the enforcement of a civil debt such as a decriminalised parking offence or, for that matter, the enforcement of a fine imposed by a magistrates' court.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Thank you Amy for claifying this, I know it sounds strange but that is exactly the reason the Bailiff will clamp and remove your car straight away if you don't pay him and very rarely will he make an arrangement to pay by installment for parking offences.

You are very welcome. I happen to know quite a bit about bailiff law.

In other words, it really has nothing at all to do with the bailiff being an overbearing bully who habitually overcharges for his 'services'?

Absolutely correct. It has nothing to do with this and everything to do with the law.

See The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, Part VI - Enforcement (52(4). Relationship between remedies) if you want to read up on it.

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

In other words, it really has nothing at all to do with the bailiff being an overbearing bully who habitually overcharges for his 'services'?

[ExBailiff31]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

It is true, search my posts, I've written about this a lot.

Thank you Amy for claifying this, I know it sounds strange but that is exactly the reason the Bailiff will clamp and remove your car straight away if you don't pay him and very rarely will he make an arrangement to pay by installment for parking offences.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

He should apply to the Court for a means hearing and send the I and E to the court's Fines Officer.

Other posters with magistrates' court fines outstanding have had good results from this route.

[Scared Mother]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Hi

Both debts are magistrates fines - not a parking ticket as I first thought - the outstanding one was a court fine he was making payments on until his account went over drawn and the bank stopped paying. He'd then changed addresses a couple of times and it's finally arrived here and it started off at £125 outstanding. He had sent and income and expenditure form to Marston's and made a £5 per month offer but they refused and gave him 28 days to pay which he obviously couldn't do.

The N245 filed on the outstanding warrant is just to stop the bailiff coming and hopefully have the court accept the £5 per month.

Thank you all again for the advice and support.

SM xx

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Thanks for clarifying guys, but i must admit that it does sound irish to me (nothing against the irish by the way as am of irish/viking descent). I would have thought the charges and fees would have been enforceable along with the debt or could have been enforced seperately. But like i said bailiffs are not my area, but am willing to learn.

One difference is, of course, that many/most of the offences for which a fine has been imposed could also carry the penalty of some weeks or months in gaol.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Council tax law is complex and very different from other areas where bailiffs may be involved, but if you want some bedtime reading, have a read of my posts in the council tax sub forum.

[teaboy2]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Thanks for clarifying guys, but i must admit that it does sound irish to me (nothing against the irish by the way as am of irish/viking descent). I would have thought the charges and fees would have been enforceable along with the debt or could have been enforced seperately. But like i said bailiffs are not my area, but am willing to learn.

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Absolutely true. Different rules for different situations.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Sorry exbailif but i don't follow you there.

You say on council tax he can claim his fees first, yet on parking fines he claims his fees last. I fail to see how that is true unless their is legislation to such effect - its quite obvious that fees are in addition to the outstanding debt or fine, and are added on top of the debt or fine in both cases.

It is true, search my posts, I've written about this a lot.