Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

[Scared Mother]

Hi

First time on here and any advice would be welcome - the following happened on Thursday:

My apologies if this seems emotional but I’m currently nursing my 9 week old daughter as I write, having not slept since the previous evening. I am extremely emotionally distressed and this is manifesting itself as not wanting anyone to touch me apart from her – this includes my mother and partner, wanting to hold her all the time and not wanting anyone near her and jumping at every noise. I don’t want to leave the house, currently have all the curtains joined, feel violated and just want to sit alone in the dark holding my daughter. This is a result of a bailiff sent from the court visiting yesterday for a debt that is not even mine.
· Yesterday at approximately 3.30pm my doorbell rang followed by a knock on the door
· I opened the window on the first floor to see who was there as I was nursing my 9 week old daughter to sleep
· The man said that he was an enforcement officer and that he was after my partner
· I explained he wasn’t here and there was just me and my 9 week old baby
· He asked me to come downstairs with some identification
· I opened the front door with my daughter visibly sleeping on my shoulder and said that I did not have to show any identification
· He then forced his foot against the front door, slamming it into me – narrowly missing my daughter and I only prevented this by grabbing the door
· He then tried to force the door
· My daughter woke and started crying
· I tried to close the door from the inside but he kept forcing it open trying to gain entry
· I struggled to close the door from the inside for about a minute, with my daughter still on my shoulder and trying to stop her getting crushed in the process
· I then slid through the door, again trying to avoid my daughter getting hurt, and held onto the handle from the outside – again trying to close it whilst the bailiff tried to force it open and past her
· I tried to move his foot off the door but couldn’t so I just kept trying to pull the door closed – by this time my daughter was crying & screaming – blatantly in distress – and choking on the tears and mucus etc
· I started shouting for help – my daughter was struggling – I was trying to keep her safe on my shoulder – whilst he continued to try force the door stating “he was coming in” and pushing against me
· One of my neighbours arrived back with her son and I screamed for her to help and to call the police which she duly did
· She came over and repeatedly said for him to leave me alone as I was carrying a newborn - this was repeated a minimum of 4 times
· I said “you’ve not been in the house you have no right to force your way in”
· He said his foot had been on the door when I opened it and therefore it’s classed as being in the house (his shoe tread is still on the front door I’m told)
· He then stopped trying to force his way in and past me and stood back where I immediately closed and locked the door and moved rapidly away from him towards my neighbor
· He had been so forceful and aggressive, I can’t explain how terrifying it had been for both of us
· He then said he had called a locksmith who would be arriving to change the locks and give him access
· My 9 week old was still screaming and my neighbor said for me to go into hers to try calm us both which I did whilst keeping the door open to check he didn’t break into the property
· Two PCSO’s then arrived so I returned to near my house
· I explained that he had not had access to the property and my neighbor had witnessed everything which she would testify to
· I explained regarding access to bailiffs as they didn’t know any legalities regarding this
· They explained he had a warrant from the court and that he stated he could enter
· I explained that the warrant did not allow him access but they said they didn’t want to say or do anything because they did not know who was right
· They then stated that the bailiff had called a locksmith to gain access and would it either not be easier to pay or call my partner
· I said ok – the baby was screaming and crying and couldn’t be pacified – I was trying to stay calm but was shaking so much I was struggling to hold her
· I then explained and asked the PCSO’s to witness that my partner would be filing an N245 form with the court as soon as I spoke to him – I explained to them and the bailiff it was a “stay on the warrant” and that he had to wait for further instruction – he said “you can file what you want but I’m still getting in that property” (Filed on Saturday 17th)
· I did not have a mobile or work number for my partner and obviously hadn’t picked up my mobile before I answered the door so I asked the officer to call 118118
· They asked where my partner worked and I told the officers( at this stage unknown to me – the bailiff had overheard this and tracked then rang my partner at work as a credit controller – which I understood is also against what they can/cannot do)
· The bailiff then attempted to access the rear of my property – he unlocked my side gate – then tried to force it as it has 2 locks – then climbed over a 6 foot fence to unlock the gate from the rear – before walking round the rear of the property
· I then went to my neighbors where I spoke to my partner – the baby was screaming so much – my neighbor tried to hold her but she couldn’t calm her – I then continued holding her – trying anything to pacify
· I said to my partner I could pay on credit card just because the whole situation was so traumatic and I was so worried about my daughter – I was too scared to try re-enter my home as the bailiff had made it clear that he would do anything to gain access
· The female PCSO came over as I was leaving to say the bailiff wanted to apologise for the distress he had caused the baby – it made it worse because he obviously knew he was in the wrong
· When I came out of my neighbours the police had arrived and tried to speak to me – I was so distraught and he couldn’t speak over top of my daughter’s crying/screaming so he said if we could go inside
· I said yes but we needed to make sure the bailiff did not enter – the officer and I came in and we tried to speak but again this was delayed due to the distress my 9 week old daughter was in
· The officer then went and spoke to the bailiff before returning to me
· He asked if I could pay and I explained only on credit card – he said at least the bailiff will then leave - I explained that I would pay but wanted him to witness it was under extreme duress – which he did
· My 9 week old had finally calmed enough for me to leave her and go downstairs to pay
· I paid £360 plus a credit card fee and was terrified of being left near the bailiff
· At one stage the PCSO’s and officer moved away to discuss another case and I started shaking so badly that I asked an officer to stand with me which she duly did
· The bailiff said there was another outstanding warrant of £395 but if I paid now then he would only charge me £195 – I said no
· He was completing various paper work which seemed to be taking a long time and I was conscious of the state of my daughter so I said I was going back inside and the bailiff could post anything further through the letter box
· The officer escorted me past the bailiff and I asked them to stay until he left
I have already explained the distress I’m still in – I can’t explain how upset I am and how unprofessional I feel he acted. My partner has huge debts of over £22,000 and has contacted all of his creditors (24) and set up payment plans unless they have been refused plus he is now being treated for depression. They are not my debts and my credit has always been excellent. I have owned the house in the residential village for 6 years and the contents have been bought or given during my lifetime. The only possessions that my partner owns literally are clothes, some books and some compact discs – he has never contributed or bought anything to the household apart from cash to cover half the household bills and he arrived 18 months ago with 4 suitcases only. Witnesses can be contacted from the officers who attended to the neighbor who, until this happened, I regretfully had never even spoken to. Until this happened I had never dealt with bailiff’s and only understood various points my partner had mentioned to me whilst sorting out his debt and with his credit work. Also a no stage did the bailiff show me any identification, explain the warrant or show any paperwork but please be aware – that I also did not ask as I was so distressed.

My concerns are that he now has access to my mother’s address as this is where my credit card is registered and he said he needed this information to process it – his ethics have already been shown by contacting my partner at work, and as she is nearly 70 and should not be contacted any more than I should. Also that although an N245 for has been sent for the other debt/warrant – as he did not understand what this was – any more than his office did when we called them – that he will attempt to gain entry when this has not been paid by the 22nd which is when he said he would be back.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']I cannot believe how threatening and aggressive his behavior was in any situation – especially when someone who is obviously not the debtor has a 9 week old daughter in her arms and I would appreciate you taking the matter as seriously as possible as this agent was[/FONT][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] authorised[/FONT][FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'] by yourself. Whilst typing this I have been crying and nervously listening to every car that goes past in case he returns.[/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']Any advice would be appreciated.[/FONT]
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']SM x[/FONT]

[teaboy2]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

I am absolutely appalled at this mans actions, this guys should be sacked for this and no doubt will be by the time we have helped you resolve this issue. Now admittely dealing with baliffs are not my area, as my legal knowledge is pre-court and court cases on debts and employment matter, not on baliff issues.

But can you tell us who this guy worked for and what the debt was for and what the other debt he said he had an outstanding warrant was for? That should give the guys that deal with baliff issues somewhere to start on.

By the way you are quite right he can not force his way into your home since he had not been inside prior to that.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

By the way you are quite right he can not force his way into your home since he had not been inside prior to that.

Not strictly true, it depends what the debt is for.

[teaboy2]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Not strictly true, it depends what the debt is for.

So what your saying is they can force their way in without prior entry to the property - Which debts are they allowed to do this for? As i always thought they had to have prior entry to your property i.e. valution of goods etc, before they could force their way in through unlocked doors or windows, and assuming the OP's partners debts sound more like credit card and loan debts, i see no reason that would allow them to force entry without prior access. Though i could be wrong since i don't deal in baliff issues.

Scratch that, it makes it clear in the guide of yours that Tuttsi provided the link too.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Guide to Bailiffs http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ead.php?t=1411

Certificated Bailff register http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=18331

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Teaboy, read my guide that Tutts has kindly posted, for further information.

[teaboy2]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Teaboy, read my guide that Tutts has kindly posted, for further information.

Just did, and edited my earlier post to show.

So basically assuming that the debts in question are loans or credit card debt, then a walk in possession order is what the balliff would have had in which he would have needed a peaceful entry prior to taking any property or goods. I woud hardly call his attempt of entry peaceful though.

Scared Mother, can you confirm what the actual debt the baliff was collecting on where i.e. loan, credit card, council tax, parking fine etc

[ExBailiff31]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Firstly may I say what vile behaviour came from what should be a professional Bailiff who should be Certificated through a court and therefore should be an ambassador to them.
You don't state what type of debt this was for? and I wonder how many visits this Bailiff had made to the property before?, you should know this as each time he visits he should be leaving a letter stating what the debt is for, what company he is from, how much is owed and his contact details all of which give you the chance to contact him and make arrangements.
The Bailiff is obliged to carry his Certificate at all times and any company I.D which he should produce upon request but if you don't ask then he probably won't.
You also mention at the end he said there was another debt for £395 but if you paid £195 he would clear it now, it may seem like a lot to think about in the situation but can I just ask why you never paid this or made an arrangement there and then?, as he will now probably return at some point and add further fees to the account and are you aware if he levied your goods or not (he should have given you a form with a list of your goods written on it and a break down of the debt)
It is often a response from people in your situation to call the police if only to remove said Bailiff from your property however it's important to remember that they have no right to do this as the Bailiff is acting under a warrant issued by a court, they can only intervine if the Bailiff breaks the law in some way and as distressing as your experience was he didn't do.
You also state that your partner owns little to no property only his clothes, some books and a few C.D's, well if it were ever to come to the point of removal you would have to prove on paper who owns what in the property or it can be reasonably assumed that you jointly own it all for example you can prove who owns a car because you have log books and paper work but how would you go about proving who owns the T.v or Microwave or sofa or pictures etc this is a very difficult thing to prove my advice to you is DO NOT LET THE BAILIFF IN talk to him through a window he can post any paperwork through the door to you which you can read or you can make an arrangement, he will be reluctant to do this as he can't charge fees and so will try to scare you into opening the door by saying things like "i'm going to get a lock smith and drill the looks out" or he may even make a fake phone call to another Bailiff pretending to be a lock smith etc but unless he has had previous access to your property he CANNOT ENTER.
Further to all of this I would advise making a written log of what happened and call the authority directly who actioned the Bailiff and complain very strongly about his discussting behaviour and offer to set up a payment plan direct with them (which they cannot refuse) but they may also tell you to speak to the Bailiff office.
Once again I'm so sorry to hear that you have been subjected to bully boy tactics from this man if you can see his Bailiffs General Certificate next time make a note of the details and complain to the court from where it was issued (it will state this on the certificate) chances are this is his M.O and ther may be other complaints logged about him as well.

[Scared Mother]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Hi All

Apologises for the delay in response - the warrant he was executing at the time was for the unpaid fine on a driving offence. The new warrant is for an unpaid parking ticket. I'd said to the Bailiff from Marston's that as soon as I spoke to my OH he would submit the N245. He is certified and I am also complaining to the court who licensed him.

I did not pay the second warrant as it's not mine or to do with me.

My OH had tried to arrange a payment plan with Marston's but they wouldn't accept it.

I will get the sworn stateent regarding what is ine asap.

Please don't argue amongst yourselves - Had enough dispute and conflict - and I appreciate all those who have responded.

Thanks you

[enaid]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Hi scaredmum,
Apologies for how the thread went, it has been sorted now as you can see.
Sometimes people jump in when they don't actually know how to help the OP and so discussions and sometimes differences of opinions follow.
Enaid x

[WendyB]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Can I clarify, when you say driving offence, has this fine been through magistrates court, as if so, this will make a difference to the powers of entry. I'm presuming it has as the N245 is a court form. Was it the bailiff who advised you to submit the N245 form?

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Wendy is exactly right. If this was a fine for a driving offence then it will be a magistrates’ fine and the rights of entry are different.

However, a peaceful entry for the first warrant does not give the bailiff automatic right of entry for the parking fine despite what he may tell you. The two are entirely separate, so don’t worry about this.

Has the initial driving offence fine now been paid and are we now only dealing with the parking fine?

The filing of an N245 is when you admit to a debt for which a judgment has previously been granted and would like to suspend the warrant of execution because you wish to make an offer to the court to pay via installments.

It is not possible to file an N245 if you wish the warrant to be suspended and/or revoked due to the debt either having been previously paid or not being your debt in the first place. Instead, you would file an N244 for this and you would attend a hearing to decide the merits, or lack thereof, of the warrant.

Since this is a parking fine this is superfluous not to mention irrelevant.

You should indeed complain to the court where this bailiff is certificated. His behaviour is wholly unacceptable. You should also complain to the local authority where the parking fine was issued since they are liable for the bailiffs in their employ.

As per my email, please see my general bailiff guide here (previously posted by Tuttsi) Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum and my parking fine guide here Parking Fine Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

If you could answer the outstanding questions, either here or by email, then we can help further.

[ExBailiff31]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Scared Mother,

The reason why the Bailiff wont accept a payment plan on a parking fine is because he can only claim his fees LAST meaning once the debit is paid in full but for debts such as council tax it's fees first which is why they will set up payments with people example you owe £155 fine plus £125 costs total £280 if you paid the £155 over 3 installments of £51.66 the fine would be paid and the warrant cleared making it very hard for the Bailiff to claim his fees which is why they won't do it or they will clamp your car (and charge you any where from £125 to £225 to remove it!
My advice to you is to contact the council direct and pay it either over the phone or send them postal orders to the value of the fine and court costs only this will stop Bailiff action and further costs.

[teaboy2]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Scared Mother,

The reason why the Bailiff wont accept a payment plan on a parking fine is because he can only claim his fees LAST meaning once the debit is paid in full but for debts such as council tax it's fees first which is why they will set up payments with people example you owe £155 fine plus £125 costs total £280 if you paid the £155 over 3 installments of £51.66 the fine would be paid and the warrant cleared making it very hard for the Bailiff to claim his fees which is why they won't do it or they will clamp your car (and charge you any where from £125 to £225 to remove it!
My advice to you is to contact the council direct and pay it either over the phone or send them postal orders to the value of the fine and court costs only this will stop Bailiff action and further costs.

Sorry exbailif but i don't follow you there.

You say on council tax he can claim his fees first, yet on parking fines he claims his fees last. I fail to see how that is true unless their is legislation to such effect - its quite obvious that fees are in addition to the outstanding debt or fine, and are added on top of the debt or fine in both cases. So long as the charges and fees are not disapportionate from the debt then the charges/fees are also collectable by the baliff. Nothing in law that am aware of states a baliff can collect fees prior to council tax debt or that a baliff must collect the debt prior to fees for magistrate court fines. In fact in magistrate court fine cases the fees are agreed between the bailiff and the court. So unless you can provide legislation to back up what you said above then i would be inclined to see that as a poor excuse for them not allowing a repayment plan.

So it would certainly be interesting to see such legislation or regulations that confirms what you posted.

Am not doubting your knowledge by the way, just i find that somewhat hard to believe to be honest.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff tries to force entry whilst a mother carries her 9 week old daughter

Sorry exbailif but i don't follow you there.

You say on council tax he can claim his fees first, yet on parking fines he claims his fees last. I fail to see how that is true unless their is legislation to such effect - its quite obvious that fees are in addition to the outstanding debt or fine, and are added on top of the debt or fine in both cases.

It is true, search my posts, I've written about this a lot.