Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

[redstrand]

Hi all, I will start at the beginning and try not to ramble too much lol

Last year my husband was made redundant in April and I at the time was not working. We fell behind with our council tax from the year before too (payments were being made to the Council) and we ended up with 2 liability orders one for £184.94 and the other being for £440.56.

I started working this year part time only 17 hours a work as it was all that I could get until one of us get a full time job. Last week (1st September) a Bailiff turned up and put a letter through my door - we were out with my Sister.

The Bailiff put a photocopied Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory through the door for the car on the drive, brought by my husband but because of insurance was registered to me as a keeper.

The total on the bill was £556.56 which included a first and second visit charge (have never seen anyone and never had a letter through the door) a levy charge, a walking posession fee and an adminstration fee. The original debt being the £440.56 one. We were given 1 day to pay it.

My sister kindly paid this money for us and was told by the bailiff that there was one other amount outstanding, not that I had anything to hide, but I was a bit surprised that he said anything to her.

I then went online and paid the £184.94 out of my wages to the Council directly.

Today I received a hand delivered letter through the door from the Bailiff again.

In this letter was a receipt for payment the amount stating £573.88 with an outstanding balance of £387.44 with costs of £318.50 which included a credit card charge payment of £27.32 :shocked:

Further more there are 2 proper Form 7 Notice of Seizure and Inventory of Goods notices.

The first one is for £440.56 with costs of £116 total of £546.56 saying that the inventory was the silver nissan with log book and all keys and on the same form there is a Form 8 Form of Walking Possession Agreement with no date and where it says signed it says "refused" this is dated and signed at the bottom by the Bailiff on the 5th September.

The second one is exactly the same form £184.94 with costs of £202.50 and a total of £387.44 again with the car listed "refused" in the signed box and signed and dated at the bottom by the Baliff again on the 5th September.

Along with these is a carbon copied piece of paper with my name address on which has the supposed outstanding amount of £387.44 on it with an apparent arrangement amount of £75 per month first payment duen on the 5/10/11 and thereafter on the 5th of each month, and that if I don't pay by the due date or if a default occurs an Enforcement Visit will incur a cost of £141.00 this again does not have my signature on it and is dated the 5th September, underneath a line that says I agree that the information above has been explained to me and a copy of this handed to me

I know this is a bit long winded sorry but I was trying to put as much information down as possible. I would like to know where I stand with regards to the car as I need it to get to work plus the receipt for the car is in my husband's name im only the registered keeper not the owner. I have also paid off the outstand £184.94 to the Council so can they still take the car off us for not paying their outrageous fees, plus I have never signed any of these forms or even seen the Bailiff not even spoken with him over the phone my Sister did that.

Any usefull information/advice greatly appreciated.

[WendyB]

Re: Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

The bailiff fees will still be outstanding and you are liable for any legitimate ones. Have a read of this Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum which will probably make things clearer.

Also request a breakdown from them of exactly how these outstanding amounts are made up. The LO will not be discharged by just paying the outstanding council tax direct to the council. When you pay via the bailiffs they take their fees first before paying the rest to the council, in this case that has not happened because you paid the council direct. That's not to say that they haven't added on loads of charges, which they invariably do. You need to challenge the incorrect fees, but you will still be liable for the legitimate ones. Have a look at the bailiff guide and you should be able to work out how much they can legitimately charge

[redstrand]

Re: Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

Thank you for you reply.

We have had notification in writing from the Council to say that our liability has been fully paid, therefore I was wondering as we had discharged our liability would the Bailiffs then have to take civil proceedings against us to recover their fees.

Also the fees were surely paid if the Bailiff "attended" our house at the same time for both LO's when the full amount of the £556.56 was paid, how can they add the same amount of charges, infact they seem to be more, on the second one if they were already at the house for the first one.

I don't seem to be explaining myself very well sorry I'm new to this.

[Swingletree]

Re: Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

I think you need to tackle this issue from two different directions. Firstly, I would go to the Council asap and tell them you want to make a complaint and whilst you and they deal with this ask for the Bailiffs actions to be put on hold. The complaint will be, the disputing the Bailiffs fees. Ask the council to break down all payments you and the Bailiffs have made to the Council and for which Liability Order they have been credited against.

Secondly, send to the Bailiffs a formal SAR (Subject Access Request) see this site for details. This will list out all visits, activity and payments made and charges raised. It will cost you £10 but the information found will put you in a much better position

Once you have this information you can check what has happened against the two Liability Orders. Come back here with that info and we will support you.

Have a read here also; The Collection Enforcement Recovery of Council Tax - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[WendyB]

Re: Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

Sorry, I misread the total paid in your original post.

If they are saying they attended at the same time for both LOs then they an only charge one first visit and one second visit, they can't charge for both visits on both LOs. (if indeed they made two visits in the first place).

Get the breakdown of fees charged from them, then you can refute any nefarious ones. Have they ever gained entry into your house? If not, any WPOs (walking possession) or levies will be invalid, as will any levies they may tell you they have. You need to point this out to them in very strong terms. Copy your letter of complaint letter to the council and remind them (the ouncil) of their vicarious liability in the matter. Don't speak to them on the phone, put everything in writing, send by email as well if possible to their complaints department

Remember that bailiffs make a habit of sending threatening letters which have no basis in law and are merely designed to frighten you into paying up. Also remember that bailiffs lie and heat as a matter of course. You will know when a bailiff is lying - his lips will be moving.

Have a mooch round the forum, there's many instances of defeating the bailiffs, a couple that spring to mind are Equita( they cave in in the end, sooner rather than later)and Phillips, ( a tougher nut but still do-able) loads of successes against them, also me and Bristow & Sutor (that was easy peasy, but my council are ok, tbh). Can't say I've ever heard of Ross and Roberts but no doubt they are much of a muchness with the rest of them.

[redstrand]

Re: Ross & Roberts - Clarification needed please

Thank you again for your replies I will indeed browse more of the forum today.

The Bailiff has never entered our house and the photocopied original Notice of Seizure for the car was put through the letterbox too, we were not even in.

So does that mean that the levy that he put on the car was invalid?