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Marston and an undue fine.

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  • Marston and an undue fine.

    I drove my Italian car in the UK (for less than 6 months) last year and one day I visited my friends’ place at XX Agar Grove NW1 XXX London. As I did not have a parking permit, my friend Inga XXXXXXX bought a number of scratch visitor parking cards so that I could park near her place. Unfortunately, I got a fine which was unjust according to me as I had clearly paid for the parking. For this reason Inga contested the fine for me (as I did not have an address in the UK) and attached the evidence which was proving my case. Apart from the copy of the “Cards” which were displayed and used for parking, she included the receipt of purchase of said cards. Unfortunately, she erroneously concluded the email by using the term "my car" and I believe the official who read it was also drawn to a mistake by the fact that the aforementioned receipt of purchase attached was under her name (however it is clear by reading the whole letter that she is referring to someone else's car and therefore her mistake was made in good faith). Thus the officer assumed the car (DG885XA) was hers but this is not only false but also unreasonable, since if she had a car she could have parked with a resident permit as she is resident at XX Agar Grove (the mistake was trivial, nonetheless we are talking about an email anyone could have written). From that day on the Council of Camden has assumed that car is Inga’s and as a result another fine I wasn’t aware of was also issued to her. Ever since the first answer to the fine appeal, she made clear it wasn’t her car and that there was a gross mistake being made by the Council without any proof other than an email of which only two words were being considered. The Council, however, continued to send her these two fines (obviously increasing the price as the time went by) and thus she contacted me and we both went to the Council in person in order to explain them what really happened. I obviously took with me the evidence that the car was mine but they refused to talk to us so, again, we posted the evidence with the copy sent from Italy of the certificate of ownership of the car (note that Inga is Polish and the car is Italian). Now, I believe this unreasonable situation is due to the fact that officers do not know the law and get benefits out of paid fines and yet they deny what the compellingly evidence shows for the mere purpose of terrorizing someone who was not responsible for the alleged fine. Obviously I am willing to pay these fines if and only if the fine are re-issued UNDER THE RIGHT NAME, which is my name as the car is mine. They wouldn’t need to send the fines to Italy as I’m willing to pay online and provide them with my current English address and my contacts: what really matters to me is that this incredible mistake gets sorted WITHOUT my friend having to sustain any further notification, since she has already been through a lot and is very stressed about it.
    The Council passed the fines over to Marston group High Court Enforcement Officers&Certificated Bailiffs. This all comes from simply trying to contest a fine issued because the car HAD paid the parking tickets...but for FOUR CONSECUTIVE HOURS. Had I gone out after 2 hours to change the tickets this would have never happened.
    I've been trying to HELP the Council clear Inga's name and send the fines to the right person. The Council states that they had no way of knowing the owner of the car (as foreign cars are not registered to DVLA and they don't have to for the first six months), however many other Councils take advantage of service like Euro Parking Collection Plc (Euro Parking Collection Plc) to do so. On top of that they received official documents showing the owner's name but ignored them. How could I proceed?
    Last edited by Celestine; 3rd June 2011, 21:49:PM. Reason: Removed personal info
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Marston and an undue fine.

    Were the fines ordered by a magistrates' court and, if they were, which court?
    Last edited by CleverClogs; 3rd June 2011, 13:05:PM. Reason: Fewer details were needed than first supposed.,

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    • #3
      Re: Marston and an undue fine.

      Not yet I guess (as I'm not receiving these "letters by hand" but my friend is). On the letter I read "Due to your failure to pay an outstanding penalty, a warrant of execution has been issued by the County Court and an agent has today attended your premises to arrange payment or the removal of your household goods&vehicle". My friend told me she has been at home but they never tried to contact her. They merely left the letters. However, they wouldn't have found the car as she doesn't own one and the car fines are referring to a car which is in Italy now and as I explained I am the owner. I contacted the Council many times but they do not seem to be concerned, nor Marston wants to discuss with me the matter as they say it is not in their duties. In short Bailiffs would do pretty much anything the Council says. I understand it is hard to enforce fines abroad but when I'm providing them with documents and I'm telling them I am willing to pay, then it looks like they just do not want to admit the mistake they made in the first place and by doing so they terrorize someone who is not responsible. My point is, can the Council assume the owner of a foreign car is whoever appeals for a fine on that car?(Even when documents proving the opposite are provided?). It looks like the burden of the proof here should be on the Council itself when they issue a fine but they make up assumptions and the bailiff does not care at all...Wow, I must say the Italian system is sweet in comparison.
      Last edited by Umbyboy; 3rd June 2011, 13:35:PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Marston and an undue fine.

        The Italian system is notoriously s-l-o-w and prone to interference; how else might Berlusconi evade prosecution?

        The Penalty Notice isn't a fine and wasn't issued by a Magistrates' Court. Read the excellent guide written by Amy - link - and get Olga to send the forms TE7 and TE9 to the Northampton Traffic Enforcement Centre, as well as writing to the bailiffs (and sent by Recorded Delivery or, better, by Special Delivery) telling them of the pending appeal and enclosing photocopies of the forms. That should stop Marstons from bothering Olga.

        What she needs to state is that she is not - and never has been - the keeper of the motor-car.

        What I do not understand, having read through the documents provided online by Camden Council, is why Olga did not obtain a Visitor's Permit for you.

        She should also take up this matter with her local councillor.
        Last edited by CleverClogs; 3rd June 2011, 14:55:PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Marston and an undue fine.

          Yes you are right about Italy..we are paying remedies at the ECtHR because our system is slow and ineffective. On top of that we have a PM who thinks he can be more equal than others...but something is changing.

          Sorry for the OT. I really appreciate your help. I had a look at the guide and I guess I'll need to send the two forms and contact the bailiffs. For what concerns the Visitor's Permit..she bought them and we displayed them and this is why she contested the PCN on my behalf. The answer from the Council was "you cannot use visitor's permit for more than 4 hours". In short we are talking about a fine I got despite having payed for the parking. Thank you.
          Last edited by Umbyboy; 3rd June 2011, 15:46:PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Marston and an undue fine.

            The TE7 is not a form enabling you to appeal. It is a form to request extra time and one of the legitimate reasons you may file one is because you were previously unaware of the fine. Since you have appealed, you cannot claim this and, therefore, you cannot file a TE7 or a TE9.

            You have several options here; since you have done your damndest to pay this fine and the council refuse to see sense - you can ignore the bailiffs completely, given that Inga does not run any risk of having her own car clamped and or removed since she doesn't own one.

            However, because Inga is being forced to deal with them and that can be very frightening, perhaps she would feel more comfortable if she were to file a Statutory Declaration, whereby she states on oath that the car does not belong to her, the fine is not hers and therefore, there is no further action for the bailiffs to take.

            Or you simply pay it and be done.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Marston and an undue fine.

              I want to pay the fine even with an increase but not 500£ as the original one was 60£. That said, the only issue here is that Inga will have "a debt" written somewhere if we do not sort it out. Am I right? She is worried for her credit score (understandably). Thanks again for your help.

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              • #8
                Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                Penalty Charge Notices will not be reported on any credit reports because it is not a debt. It is a fine.

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                • #9
                  Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                  So, in other words there will be no consequence but why, then, does the bailiff write on the letter that they will remove any property from her house?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                    Originally posted by Umbyboy View Post
                    So, in other words there will be no consequence but why, then, does the bailiff write on the letter that they will remove any property from her house?
                    That's mostly because bailiffs tell lies.

                    If she's daft enough to let them in, they'd probably try to levy her goods even if she had served them with the Statutory Declaration to the effect that the motor-car has never belonged to her and that she was not responsible for having parked it. This is because bailiffs are also rather stupid.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                      It does not matter who was driving at the time or who parked it.

                      In the case of Penalty Charge Notices the owner is usually liable for the penalty and the owner is presumed to be the registered keeper. The bailiffs know this, but they hope that nobody else does.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                        The situation here is paradoxical, because the Council says we no longer need to discuss the matter with you whereas the Bailiff says we do not need to know what the PCN is about, thus they do not really care. However, as far as I understood, a Statutory Declaration should do. I will tell her to send it to both Marston and the Council, afterwards as they have the documents showing who is the owner if they want they can send the fine (as it was issued one year ago could they still send it to the right owner of the car?)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                          Call the court on Monday morning and ask them when the Warrant was issued. They have 12 months in which to enforce it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                            Do you mean 12 months since the PNC was issued or since the Council asked Marston to collect it?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Marston and an undue fine.

                              Twelve months from the issue of the warrant.

                              Comment

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