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Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

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  • Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

    So... Last July (2009) I began having visits from a Rossendales Bailiff over a Magistrates Liability Order/Distress warrant *for unpaid council tax. *I immediately called them and asked what the balance I owed was. The reply was a disheartening £875.91. I stated that I was out of work and could afford to pay £50 a month from my jobseekers allowance, but was told this wouldn't fly, they said I had two accounts outstanding(??), the first charge was £473.11 and the second was £402.80. I was told that if I paid the £473.11 by the end of the month they would accept installments on the lower amount.
    I borrowed money from my partner and her father (which I am still paying off) and applied for a Budgeting Loan from the DWP. I promptly paid the £473.11 (plus a hidden admin charge for paying with a debit card) on 28/7/09. I received a receipt from this.

    The folllowing month I paid £202.80 and received a receipt saying that my balance was now £200.

    It was only then that I discovered some earlier correspondence from Rossendales (my partner would often leave unopened mail on the table and it simply got buried with other paperwork). The previous letters from Rossendales stated that the balances owed were £402.80 & £204.11 (including first visit & second visit charges) totalling £606.91 NOT the £875.91 they were claiming in July. Since I had already paid a total of £677.51 (proven in my bank statement) I had already paid £70 more than I needed to.
    I called them to ask where their figures came from and requested a breakdown of their charges before I paid them any more cash, they said that my account details were still with the bailiff in charge. I called him and he said that I had to call head office. This went back and forth several times until I said that I refuse to pay any more money until I had the paperwork I was legally entitled to.

    In November (two months after the phone calls) I received another letter stating that they agreed to accept installments and I did not adhere to them. I now owed £389.00 plus a further £110.00 should a van be sent to my address. Again, I called them and was given the same old spin.

    I didn't pay and didn't hear from them again until May this year, when the same notices were posted through the communal door of my block (not even in sealed envelopes) and left in the foyer for any Tom, Dick and Harry to see. I ignored these, because, as far as I'm concerned, I didn't receive them.*

    More recently I've had handwritten notices posted through the door for me to "contact the bailiff in charge and discuss the o/s court warrant". I should also add that one of these pieces of paper had somebody elses credit card details written on the back!!!

    For the last month I have been receiving phone calls on an almost daily basis from the bailiff, but I'm still reluctant to pay until I receive a breakdown of charges. *I am starting to feel like I'm being harassed.

    Rossendales slogan states that they are "Proud to be Professional". What an absolute joke they are! **

  • #2
    Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

    Check the bailiff thread http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=14113 and get a SAR off http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=14106

    It may be the case that they added 'fees' to the second amount which brought it up to 400(or so), however that would seem very excessive as the fees are set. The SAR will show your account from day zero. If they got the maths wrong, they will provide yout he paperwork to prove it. They also cant doctor anything as you have a copy of the original showing 204 (well, they could, but then that would get them in hot water when you for your Form 4 complaint)

    I notice you say you are on JSA etc - surely that entitles you to council tax benefit?
    Advice given is offered as personal opinion only. I always recommend you seek professional legal advice.

    Negative, I am a meat popsicle

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

      I'm assuming the council tax charges relate to a period when I was working. I e-mailed the council on Monday for details of my account and the amount which had been passed to the DCA.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

        Originally posted by Arrogant Duck View Post
        I promptly paid the £473.11 (plus a hidden admin charge for paying with a debit card) on 28/7/09. I received a receipt from this.
        Applying a fee to pay via any card is not allowed. Have a read of this thread, post #21 for more information Equita bailiffs Urgent help required!! please - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

          Originally posted by Amy View Post
          Applying a fee to pay via any card is not allowed.
          Good to know. Very sneaky that they applied this.

          Does anybody know if it's legal for the bailiff to be constantly phoning me or sending SMS text messages? Surely it contravenes the rule that they must act professional at all times?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

            It's not illegal, unless he's leaving you abusive messages. You're dealing with a bailiff here, not a debt collector.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

              If he calls again am I better off answering the call or leaving it to go to voicemail?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                If it were me, I'd tell him I will never deal with him again based on what has already been paid compared to the initial debt.

                But if you do do this, you should be aware that he'll probably take his tactics up a notch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                  Update....

                  This is a copy of the letter I posted (registered mail) on 8th October 2010:



                  Client Ref: *******
                  Account Numbers: ******* & ********


                  Dear Ms. Green-Jones,

                  I am writing in connection to the above account numbers. For several months, I have been receiving visits and telephone calls from a Mr. Bailiff, who is working on behalf of your company to recover a debt which I believe I have already paid.
                  In the letters which have been posted through my door it clearly states that the bailiff named above will re-attend my address at his convenience and may remove goods even in my absence. As Mr. Bailiff has never entered my property, I believe this threat of action is illegal due to the fact that a Walking Possession Order has not been signed and I have not received a Form 7 (notice of seizure of goods & inventory).
                  According to my first correspondence with Rossendales, my original debt to Hounslow Council (including first & second visit charges due to your company) was £X. I have already paid £X+Y (which my bank statements will prove) but am still being harassed for phantom amounts which seem to have no basis in law and therefore fraudulent as no further visit fees can be imposed, thus your bailiff is committing fraud by false representation. I have asked for a Breakdown of my account several times but have yet to receive any response.

                  May I also add that Mr. Bailiff’s conduct has been nothing short of appalling. In addition to leaving confidential letters in a communal foyer WITHOUT being placed in a sealed envelope, I have also had hand-written notes passed through my door which I deem extremely unprofessional. One of these hand-written notices also revealed the FULL credit card details of another debtor.

                  The Fraud Act 2006 created a new general offence of fraud. This can be committed by three methods, one of which is by false representation. Fraud by false representation is set out in Section 2 of the act; where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself as another, or cause loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss, that person will be causing an offence.

                  Taking into account the above paragraph, I look forward to seeing a breakdown of my account, including computer screenshots, so this matter can be resolved once and for all.
                  This includes:
                  A - The time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
                  B - The reason for the fee.
                  C - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
                  D - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.
                  E - The date of the Certification.

                  Please note, that this is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10.00. You are obliged to provide this information.

                  I require this information within 14 days and would be grateful if you could instruct Mr. Bailiff or any other bailiff working on your behalf to cease action against me until this matter is resolved.

                  Please note that a similar letter has also been sent to Hounslow Council.

                  Yours Sincerely,



                  Mr. Notpayinganothershilling Toyourcorruptcompany


                  *Please also note that I am not signing this letter as I do not want my signature to be forged upon any of your documents.



                  --------------------------------------------------------------




                  I got a reply from my letter to Rossenthieves. It's quite laughable.

                  I don't have access to a scanner and it's quite a lengthy piece, so I'll only share the main points.

                  My Breakdown of account is as follows (reference numbers and dates have been edited for anonymity reasons):

                  Ref: 1234567
                  Council Tax Debt: £xx
                  1st Visit Fee - 30.02.10: £24.50
                  2nd Visit Fee - 31.04.10: £18.00
                  Levy Fee 32.06.10: £29.00
                  Van Attendance Fee 32.06.10: £160.00
                  Waiting Time 32.06.10: £80.00
                  Transaction Fee: £.0.60

                  Payment received: £x
                  Outstanding Balance: £0

                  Ref: 7654321
                  Council Tax Debt: £x
                  1st Visit Fee - 30.02.10: £24.10
                  2nd Visit Fee - 31.04.10: £18.00
                  Levy Fee - 01.09.10: £29.00
                  Van Attendance Fee - 01.09.10: £160.00
                  Transaction Fee: £0.80

                  Payment Received: £x
                  Outstanding: £x


                  My main bones of contention are as follows.

                  A) As there are two separate accounts, is there any reason to add two sets of visit charges??
                  B) For my first account, they are claiming that a levy was completed on goods within my property. As the bailiff never gained entry to my property, surely this charge is completely unwarranted?
                  C) There is no such thing as a Waiting Fee?
                  D) This is what I find most laughable... The levy charge on the second account is for a levy on a vehicle at my address. I DON'T OWN A VEHICLE AND NEVER HAVE!!

                  I am planning on writing a letter back to Rossendales proving that I have overpaid and want to laugh at their illegal charges.

                  Any advice please??
                  Last edited by Arrogant Duck; 18th October 2010, 13:27:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                    Other than you are completely correct on points A, B, C and D - go for it.

                    However, before you write to Rossendales, would it be possible for you to get something in writing from your council to say these fees are correct?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                      Go kick some asses - they deserve it. We had a similar situation with Andrew James Enforcement in Swansea who kept insisting we had defaulted on agreed payment plans allowing them to make more charges and so it went on. We ended up paying over £3000 for a bill of £600.

                      Only now am I challenging this with them, but much to my disappointment have discovered (though hopefully they won't know) having sent my SAR that if there is no debt outstanding anymore, they are under no obligation to send you any information at all. It's very frustrating as I feel sure I could put together a strong case against them if I could get my hands on the information.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                        Originally posted by Caspar View Post
                        Only now am I challenging this with them, but much to my disappointment have discovered (though hopefully they won't know) having sent my SAR that if there is no debt outstanding anymore, they are under no obligation to send you any information at all.
                        I beg your pardon? Run that past me again?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                          Originally posted by Amy View Post
                          I beg your pardon? Run that past me again?
                          Read it yesterday somewhere on this site. Will try my best to find it for you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                            Amy, I can't find it, but I'm sure it was on here somewhere. Equally having read lots of other stuff since my earlier posting I'm sure that they do have to comply with my request. We'll see what happens!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are Rossendales trying to defraud money?

                              If you have sent a formal SAR and enclosed the statutory maximum £10, then they must comply with your request whether or not you have a current debt with them.

                              I am sure you didn't read that kind of advice on this forum.

                              Comment

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