Bailiffs Charges for PCN

[Bigsis]

Hi everyone, found this site while researching info and advise on dealing with bailiffs. My 22 year old son was made redundant in Feb '10 and we've been helping him sort his financial probs. He had a parking ticket which got forgotten about due to more serious debts at the time. He hid the prob as he was embrassed to bring more debt to us, until the bailiff letter arrived and he didn't know how to handle it!!

PCN was for £70 went up £105, Bristow & Sutor letter wanted £123.16. On 4/8/10 came home from work and found 2 sheets of paper in porch. 'Notice of Removal Expenses' man & vehicle £90 plus VAT £15.75 and 'Notice of Intended Seizure of Goods' immediate payment of £323.67 (includes charge of £159.71 for my visit today) signed by bailiff Paul (no surname).

I rang B'ham C.C. to pay the £123.16 but they said I needed to pay the bailiffs, I asked if they could take back charge so I could deal with them, but they said no it was too late. I paid Bristow & Sutor via their online payment site. I thought at least we've paid the council and as I didn't understand the bailiffs charges I'd sort that out separately.

Next day I contacted Nationaldebtline for advise, they were very helpful, but said it was likely the £123.16 wouldn't go to the Council but would be used to offset the bailiffs charges first. I was gutted. They also advised not to contact or speak to bailiffs but communicate in writing. Also not to let them in, lock doors and windows. They felt the charges were very high and to request a breakdown, they have sent me a CAB sheet of bailiff fees.

I have sent 2 letters to Bristow & Sutor; one from my son confirming his payment, requesting breakdown of charges and denying peaceful entry to our home; and a Notice of Ownership letter to confirm we own the property and its contents (I can post copies of letters if you need them). Will this action prevent any further visits and charges, until we hear back from them?

We are waiting for response from B&S and no further visit from bailiff as yet. I accept we will have to pay some fees, but not ones that appear to have been plucked out of the air.

Will keep you posted when we hear anything further.

[Tools]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi and welcome to Beagles. Have a good read of this link A guide to Bailiffs and let us know if you have any further questions.

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Thank you for your response and links, I have tried to check bailiff certification but with only a christian name not possible. Bristow & Sutor have 7 Pauls and 3 with 2nd name of Paul.

Are they obliged to respond to our letters before calling again or adding any further fees.

Many thanks

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Received letter from Bristow & Sutor today (dated 13/8/10) with breakdown of charges as requested.

It states 'entry will not be forced into your property by our bailiffs' and ' we are enforcing a distress warrant on behalf of B'ham City Council. The enforcement of the debt is by distress and sale of goods of the debtor named on the warrant (haven't seen warrant) and it is in accordance with The Enforcement of road Traffic Debts <certificated bailiffs> Regulations 1993 <as amended>. The process does not require your acknowledgement or co-operation and it does not involve a contract with you. If the debt is paid in full the process will cease, otherwise it will continue without the need for your involvement. We confirm that we are prepared to allow until the 19/8/10 (tomorrow!) for the attached questionnaire to be completed and returned to our offices along with your offer of payment to be reviewed'.

The charges: A.T.L. Fee (1st visit) 22/710 £40.80 (inc VAT)

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Sorry I didn't finish my last post re charges:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

A.T.L. Fee (1st visit) 22/7/10 £40.80
A.T.L. Fee (2nd vist) 05/8/10 £55.60
A.T.R. Costs (2nd visit) 05/08/10 £105.75

Total of £202.15 (includes VAT)

Even I have worked out this can't be right!! 28% of £110 = £30.80 + VAT= £36.69 for 1st visit. How much can they charge for 2nd visit? They cannot charge for man & van when no entry or levy was made.

What would you advise now - a letter of complaint. Would appreciate your comments.

Many thanks

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Firstly many thanks for my birthday message, that was a really nice surprise.

Just to update you, I decided to send a SAR letter to Bristow & Sutor to find out how they have calculated charges. I have requested no further visits or charges to be added to acct.

Our nightmares continue, having never had any dealings with bailiffs before now got 2 to deal with

Today had 'Notice of Attendance' hand delivered thru door from Philips for my sons parking fines from Westminster council for £1163.32. I rang customer sevices to find out what it was about. Told 2 accts for £185 & £125, plus visits of £200 each. I said we never had any visits until today. She said payment of £115 was made on 19/3 and an agreement of £75 per month had not being paid. Then the 'penny dropped' and I said these were paid some months ago. She said send us proof and give us 3 working days to investigate.

Letter dated 15/3/10 for 2 fines £198.16 & £138.16 = £336.32. We verbally agreed to pay £115 and £75 x 2 months & £71.32. They said they would send confirmation letter. We paid £115 on 19/3. Letter dated 16/4/10 requested payment of £125 which we paid. No further correspondence, so we thought foolishly this was the end of it. Fortunately, I have letters and receipt (after tearing house to pieces). I will send copies and request SAR, can you give any further adise please

Many thanks

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi, just to update you re Bristow & Sutor. Sent SAR letter on 18/8/10, no reply as yet but 40th day not till 28/9/10

Got back from holiday early hours of Friday 17/9/10 and left car on driveway over night. Foolishly thinking that activity on account would cease until we got reply to SAR. At around 8.30am doorbell rang thinking it was postman peered out to see guy in a car pulling away. In door was 'Notice of Seizue of Goods and Inventory' on the car. Couldn't believe our bad luck after hiding car away for so long.

'Notice of Removal Expenses' man & vehicle £90 + vat £105.75, debt £110, Bailiff costs £263.90 total £373.90

I rang Nationaldebtline for advise and they said the car was now the possession of B&S and they could come at anytime to take it. Best option was to pay up and reclaim charges retrospectively.

I rang B'ham CC Parking Dept to see if they could lift the levy but they wouldn't help. I rang the Ombudsman but they said it could take 4-6weeks to process a complaint. I rang the Information commission but could only help if they don't respond to SAR. I rang Office of Fair Trading but they said there was a conflict of interest with the Council!

At this point I lost the will to live and felt really deflated. I just wanted to safeguard the car, so I decided to contact B&S.

They said as I hadn't contacted them by 19/8/10 as requested, activity on the account continued. I said I had contacted them in writing on 18/8/10 with SAR letter and was still waiting for a reply. They confirmed they were dealing with SAR but it wouldn't be any different to the breakdown in charges I had already received. I said the charges were incorrect ie: 28% of £110 is 30.80 plus vat 36.19 not 40.80. They said it was 28% of the whole amount of 123.16. I said that include the letter fee. They said that was correct and the 2nd visit fee 55.60 was 28% of the whole amount again. £105.75 was what the levy would be if levied. I was totally confused.

The amount owed was 202.15 but now was 373.90 including Fridays levy.

I felt I had no choice but to agree to a payment plan to stop any further charges. I paid 73.90 with my debit card and £100 on standing order over next 3 months. I caved in and feel really bad about it.

Have B&S charged correctly or are telling me lies? I still want to pursue a claim after I see their reply to SAR. I still need to find the strength to fight Philips when I get their reply to SAR. I think I'm ageing fast

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi Everyone

Latest update on Bristow & Sutor - 40th day lapsed on 27th Sept for them to respond to SAR letter. So I decided to contact the Parking Fines dept at B'ham C.C. as they are the employers of B&S! Found out supervisor was Miss Dodds, her supervisor was Mr Davies and their manager Mrs Rymans, all unavailable. Rang next day and after leaving my name and PCN no was told Miss Dodds would ring me, which she did after obviously getting as much info off B&S first. I told her I had issues with contractors B&S with regard their charging and council were responsible for their actions.

I asked why, for 1st visit, were they charging 28% of 123.16 and not the debt of £110, she said they were intitled to do so, I argued this was not legal, they shouldn't be making a profit on VAT. However, assuming they were right 28% of £123.16 plus 17.5% VAT was not £40.80 and neither was the 2nd visit fee correct. Furthermore, they should not be charging for the phanthom 'man & van' £105.75, when no levy was made. They have no idea what my son owns, your trying to get cash not property. I then told her they had not complied with my SAR letter and on 17th Sept they had put a seizure on my sons car. I had no option but to agree to a payment plan with B&S, I paid £73.90 and 3 monthly payments of £100, to keep them away from car. Additionally, they should not be adding fee to card payments.

She agreed they were wrong to put seizure on car before replying to SAR, but perhaps they were not sure if it was a SAR letter. I read it out to her and also pointed out they had cashed £10 cheque. She asked what I planned to do. I said I would be reporting them to the Information Office, Ombudsman, OFT and any other relevant line of redress. Furthermore, I had been advised by National Debtline, various online forums, Sheila Harding of Bailiffadviceonline. She said who's Sheila Harding? I told her she had represented the daughter of Austin Mitchell in similar circumstances. She said who's Austin Mitchell? An MP who raised the matter in the House of Commons. I also mentioned I would be informing my local MP Andrew Mitchell.

At this point she said she would email B&S to look at my case urgently and call me back next day. On Friday had a new payment plan via post from B&S, reducing monthy payments to £63.25 & 2 x £65. Then got call from Miss Dodds office to inform me they would now accept a one-off payment of £65. I decided to accept this offer and quit while I was ahead. I rang B&S and paid by card which of course incurred charge. They were seeking £373.90 and in 24 hours its reduced too £65.

To recap I paid: £123.16 plus £4.93 card fee £128.09

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Ooops I hit wrong key again!!!

To recap I paid: £123.16 plus card fee £4.93 £128.09
£ 73.90 plus card fee £ 78
£ 65.00 plus card fee £2.60 £ 67.60
£ 10.00 SAR charge £ 10.00 = £283.67

I guess they must have been worried or they wouldn't have reduced the fees, however, I think I've still paid £50 more than I should. Miss Dodds at least did address and react quickly to my complaints. I will be writing to the Head of Parking Fines at B'ham C.C. (whoever that maybe, if anyone knows please let me know) to complain about B&S and the council's practise of using these methods of debt collecting. I will also send copy to Andrew Mitchell MP and anyone else I can think of.

Many thanks to Tools, the posters on this forum, National debtline and Sheila Harding for keeping me sane, motivated and informed of my rights.

I still have to deal with Philips, they have until 11th October to respond to SAR. I will let you know how I get on with them.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Ooops I hit wrong key again!!!

To recap I paid: £123.16 plus card fee £4.93 £128.09
£ 73.90 plus card fee £ 78
£ 65.00 plus card fee £2.60 £ 67.60
£ 10.00 SAR charge £ 10.00 = £283.67

I guess they must have been worried or they wouldn't have reduced the fees, however, I think I've still paid £50 more than I should. Miss Dodds at least did address and react quickly to my complaints. I will be writing to the Head of Parking Fines at B'ham C.C. (whoever that maybe, if anyone knows please let me know) to complain about B&S and the council's practise of using these methods of debt collecting. I will also send copy to Andrew Mitchell MP and anyone else I can think of.

Many thanks to Tools, the posters on this forum, National debtline and Sheila Harding for keeping me sane, motivated and informed of my rights.

I still have to deal with Philips, they have until 11th October to respond to SAR. I will let you know how I get on with them.

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi Amy & Tools

Sent SAR request to Philips, 40th day lapsed on 11.10.10. They now claim they didn't receive it, even though my £10 cheque was cashed on14.9.10. They won't accept faxed or emailed copy, want me to post it to them again with proof of payment.

Have you got a good 7 day final letter to send them?

Many thanks

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi Honey Pie

You really need the input of the experts on this forum to advise you and to read the experiences of other forum users. You will get all the help you need shortly.

My son didn't get his car clamped so not able to advise you on that, however, did you make a payment on 15.10.10. Have they informed you how much is the charge for PCN and breakdown of their charges. If you are not aware of PCN you need to find out more about it. Read the link 'A Guide to Bailiffs'.

Keep positive, I'm sure you'll hear from possibly Amy one of bailiff experts soon. Take care xx

[Amy]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi Amy & Tools

Sent SAR request to Philips, 40th day lapsed on 11.10.10. They now claim they didn't receive it, even though my £10 cheque was cashed on14.9.10. They won't accept faxed or emailed copy, want me to post it to them again with proof of payment.

Have you got a good 7 day final letter to send them?

Many thanks

Yes, send them this edited to suit.

Dear

Re: Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

On (date you wrote the SAR) I sent a formal Subject Access Request and included the statutory maximum fee of £10, according to the above Act, which was received by your office on **************.

I have attached a copy of my original letter of (date you wrote the SAR) for your convenience. I suggest that you attend to my request as a matter of urgency.

This letter has been sent by first class post and therefore should have reached you by (calculate the date) and the date of receipt will be indicated by Royal Mail's service audit. I have no doubt that you will be aware, as of this date your statutory 40 days for compliance will be almost expired.

I look forward to receiving the information I requested. However, should the statutory deadline expire without receipt of the information that I have requested, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a County Court action under s.7 and s.15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998 when I shall seek a Court order obliging you to comply together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without further notice to you.

Furthermore I will escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner.

Yours sincerely

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Thanks Amy, have completed letter and will send it on Monday. I'll keep you updated with progress.

Would you be able to look into problems for Honey Pie who seems to have got attached to my threads, maybe they need their own thread to get the help they need.

[Bigsis]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Hi Amy,

Philips have failed to respond to my 7 day final letter, they claim not to have received this one either, even though Post Office track & trace confirms delivery of both. I've downloaded the ICO complaint form and its ready to be sent tomorrow.

How do I go about the County Court action under s.7 and s.15 (2) of the Data Protection Act 1998. Your advise would be appreciated.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiffs Charges for PCN

Which option do you wish to take, the ICO or court?