Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

1. Do I take this to my local County Court? Or Magistrates? (my fine was issued at Magistrates Court?)

This needs to be filed at the bailiff's certificating court or online.

2. How in depth should I go?,
in respect of :-

(i) the facts ,
(ii) my feeling personally threatened and intimidated, forcing me to pay in full (after borrowing the full amount - which I am still repaying!)
(iii) Do I include all the details in relation to non-compliance of SAR and my complaint being lodged with the information commissioner, pending his investigation of the matter?
(iiii) should I also include information/evidence of the fact that I had sent the Court a cheque for £30, only days prior to the 'bailiff attending my home' and the fact that the Bailiff paid no regard to this? (ie: I do have full evidence/proof of this! - shall I include?) Also, should I photocopy and attach all documents I have been issued by Marstons?

(V) any other advice / guidance - would be appreciated.

..Also should I state my desired outcomes? or leave for Judge to consider?

...On a final note, should I also mention the situation re his not being certificated at time of enforcing distress warrant - demanding full payment from me?

At least this should get things moving along now? Such a slow process, unlike when we owe them or any other government body! Immediate Payment / or else.. for us however, its a long old hard and slow slog, the outcome undetermined, until the end!

Thanks again for all your help, if you could just respond to these queries when you can and I shall take it from there.

Will of course keep you posted .........................

Help! Help! Help! Please ........................ byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

You need it be as full an account, containing only facts as you can manage. You need to mention all of the above but succinctly.

If you need any help, I'll help you.

[frances1p]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

I am getting concerned at the length of time taken by the Information commissioner, re my complaint to them - ages ago ()ie: non compliance to SAR - Marston Group)
I did get a letter stating that they were snowed under, apologies etc but have heard nothing since?
Any ideas/advice please?
Thanks

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Have you telephoned the ICO for an update?

Did you file the Form 4 complaint yet?

[distress]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

I am so concerned that these bailiffs know the tricks, the weakness of the control law, the backlog of complaints and will escape justice with their foul play, and no one can do anything against them, or even less to recover the extortion fee paid. I did hope by reading until the last post to see any positive outcome. Thanks for your posts

[infinateflea]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Hi all, i m new to all this so please bare with me.
I have a similiar problem with Marstons, a (bailiff) he claimed, i have since found out he is not cerificated, called at my house for a motoring offence fine. He posted a removal notice through my door at 6am one morning, and left. I called him on the number given and paid the monies in full, in the hope of stopping further costs and possibly claiming some of there fees back.

The amount is as follows:-

£275 fine
£75 compliance fee
£200 Attendance fee
£1 debit card charge

So, are these fees legal for posting a note through my door?
I have written to them and they have simply stated that these charges have been applied in accordance with the authority of the Magistrates Court Act 1980 and on a scale set down by the Ministry of Justice.
Do they not have to incur costs? or can they really charge what they like for doing nothing.

Any advice would be really appreciated

Thanks

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

I didn't realise you had posted twice, I have just replied on your other post.

As far as this post is concerned, they should be looking at The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) (Amendment) Regulations 2003 and not the Magistrates Court Act 1980.

[frances1p]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Hi Everyone, bet you thought I had just 'given up' & accepted defeat by now? Well, not so! I have in fact, waited and waited and waited for a response from the ICO and finally - it arrived!! (Every avenue taken to try and seek justice, opens up another potential complaint for you to pursue? - its crazy!)
The ICO wrote to me in April 2010, basically apologising for huge delays etc and notifying me of their actions. They had written to Marstons re my complaint, on 5 May 2010 - I received further correspondence from Marstons, re: SAR /ICO etc This time the matter being dealt with by Russ Poulter - Director at Marstons Group Ltd.

Marstons have provided much paperwork and a two page covering letter - most of it though is made up with Enclosures (copies of previous correspondence between myself and Marstons in relation to the aforementioned, SAR / Non Complience etc)
I shall try and condense the content of the letter and identify any additional items?

RE: SAR
Ref: letter from ICO /yr complaint ref no: XXX about the way Marstons Group has not complied etc
I have conducted an internal investigation re this & identified ..... sequence of correspondence as follows:
we recd SAR from you 19/11/2008 and £10 fee
Receipt of this letter sent on 19 Novembger 2008
23/12/2008 - we sent our standard format SAR response letter giving overview of info held......in hindsight and to help with clarity, it may have been more appropriate to set out the response ih the format requested ie: answer your initial questions and then provide specifics against the 13 item list.
on 27 April 2009 (four months later), we received another letter from you (21/04/2009) suggesting that we had not complied with the original SAR, specifically that we:
* Did not provide a detailed breakdown ..,........
* Had not confirmed details of the Bailiffs certificate
On 12 May 2009 we received a copy of previous letter, we answered apoligising for the delay on 15 June 2009, again providing the info and 'additional explanatory notes?'.
So you may be provided with the info you requre, I have provided the infitial info in the format requested ......................................etc
lists fees .........
Re Attendance fee, I presume that the EA attended at least once between the 4th and 10th of September 2008?
Name of the Certificated Bailiff?
I can confirm that the person you suggested Mr Paul Llewellyn is indeed that person. For info, there is no legal requirement for an EA enforcing HMCS Distress warrants to be certificated, we did however have a contractual obligation to ensure that they were certificated within one year of joining us.
I can confirm that Mr Llewelly joined us on 18 Aug 2008 and was certificated by Dartford ..........on 15 April 2009.
YES ALL THIS WE KNOW !!!! ETC........................

So what do you think of the reply? Is that right re: certification of bailiffs etc?

Please advise once again, I am clueless?!!!

Thanks again in advance!

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Re Attendance fee, I presume that the EA attended at least once between the 4th and 10th of September 2008?

Is he asking you or telling you? What is an EA?

I can confirm that the person you suggested Mr Paul Llewellyn is indeed that person. For info, there is no legal requirement for an EA enforcing HMCS Distress warrants to be certificated, we did however have a contractual obligation to ensure that they were certificated within one year of joining us.

I can confirm that Mr Llewelly joined us on 18 Aug 2008 and was certificated by Dartford ..........on 15 April 2009.

This is is wrong. It is 6 months from the date of employment and as they have handily provided you with the date he commenced his employment, they are screwed.

[frances1p]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

....... lets hope so !!
I think I have everything I need (or all I am going to get) now, in order to move this matter forward via the Courts, I can't believe how long it has taken to reach this point!! Hopefully I can now seek the (long overdue) justice that I deserve!
Marstons have stated, very boldly in their response: that it is not a statutory requirement for a EA levying a distress warrant, then go on to explain about their agreement with HMCS, for Marstons Employees to become certificated within year 1 of employment!
The irony being, the last response I received from marstons, they are adamant that Mr Paul Lewellyn was certificated at time and I am pretty certain, quoted a cert no: for my reference. (I also recall the EA categorically stating that he was certificated - on the day he called to levy distress!
Anyway, I now want to complete a group 4 complaint against the bailiff/Marstons; seeking justice & financial redress/compensation?

Any chance of a bit of help/guidance, how to set out /format - maybe a 'template' for me to work from? Would be a great help to me, if you are able to do this for me; but will understand if you cant? Just let me know, either way; and I can take it from there!
Thanks so much for your help
bye for now!

[frances1p]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Hi, sorry if I appear a bit 'keen' but want to finally put this matter to rest! So, making the very most of what I have and ensuring that I am very particular about specifying their 'unprofessional means' if not 'unlawful? re: certification of bailiffs, within 1 year of employment with Marstons?"

Incidentally, I overlooked your earlier query in replying to my post - you queried EA?
I am sorry, I had meant EO = Enforcement Officer!

So - I am now ready, pen poised, to get to work on this group 4 complaint. I am just apprehensive that I might appear to be "marching in, guns blazing etc!" - my concern being, if I dont get all my points accross on paper, the Courts will never know the full picture. Please Please can you advise me on best course of action/presentation of case (Group 4 Complaint Form??)
Afterall, I have the whole initial situation to refer to, ie: the actual day of his visit, how I felt bullied and threatened to pay up in full, being concerned that I might be taken to Police Stn/Court for questioning and my disabled son, left in a stressful situation?? His implications about my car and of course, implying that Police Support/back up, was only a telephone call away - so too was the locksmith and van; should I not be able to pay.
His persistance, waiting outside my house for what seemed like an eternity (2 hours+) his shouting through my letter box for me to open the door and sort matter out, so all my neighbours could hear! Refusing to give me precise information re: paying debt and not giving me the opportunity to return to Court for the judge to review matter?
I was petrified! - and then of course, my own disability - suffering with heart problems and prone to life threatening palpitations!
As if all this wasn't enough, the SAR situation, non-compliance, false claims of bailiff being certificated (I have this in writing and a cert no
I feel compelled to put it all in to my preliminary complaint/hearing request so the Court know exactly what I have had to go through and that Marstons, seem to think they are above the Law!!!

HELP-P-P-P-P-P-P I am drowning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you can, sorry to be a pain, really looking forward to getting started on this, but above presents problem for me????

bye for now
thanks in advance.
:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

The best advice I can offer is to just draft, draft and draft again.

It's a Form 4 by the way, not a Group 4.

I find the best way is to make notes, pull it into a readable format and then pretend you don't know the facts..... would it make sense to someone who doesn't know?

Post up a draft and we'll take a look.

[frances1p]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

~Thanks, I shall get to work on that this evening and post a draft for you to gloss over - I am not after, perfect - just dont want to overlook anything 'critical'
Cheers
Will post you asap
bfn

[Dougal16T]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Good morning,

Just putting my two penno'rth in..


This is typical Marston tactics, they seem to think they are above the law. I had a minor problem with them, and wrote to them 4 times by recorded delivery, each letter went unanswered.

The guidelines which they have to adhere to clearly state 'there must be a prompt response to correspondence', but why should they care?

They are contracted to HMCS...however, there are pitfalls for everyone concerned with the issuing and 'enforcement' of Distress Warrants along the way - fortunately those pitfalls are to the advantage of the person being 'pursued'.

In essence and without getting too technical - we really must remind ourselves that the Law is 'split' into 2 halves (so to speak), Civil Law and Criminal Law.

The Marston Group have already stepped 'into trouble' previously, and it seems are doing so again.

I know that there are those of you who will think 'There he goes again'...BUT the Law is to protect as well as prosecute.

Looking at this particular case and it seems that there is a very good Criminal Case against Marston under the Fraud Act 2006.

The reasons are these:
Marston Group and HMCS state quite clearly that if the debtor cannot pay, then a repayment plan can be agreed. The maximum time scale for re-payment is set at 90 days. So, not only should they have agreed to a repayment plan, the bailiff they sent should have been certificated.
(copied from Amy's post - sorry Amy! )

Without even considering the rest of the issues, then this seems to best explained with a rather lengthy analysis:

'I opened the front door There stood a man introducing himself as a Court Enforcement Officer/Bailiff from Marstons.
He said he was calling at my house to enforce a Distress Warrant, issued by the relevant Mag Court - for non payment of 60.00 fine.
He stated the purpose of his visit was to take with him the sum requested (now 286.00GBP) in full, or he will be required to contact local locksmiths and the police in order to enter my property and seize goods. OFFENCE NUMBER 1 – SECTION 2 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006
He also threatened to take my car until realising as I am disabled it is owned by Motability, he then went on to say he could still seize it, preventing me from using/driving it. OFFENCE NUMBER 2 – SECTION 2 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006

He said he would return in an hour, to allow time for me to get dressed and also to decide how I wanted this Warrant to be executed, ie: MONEY OR GOODS.
I explained to him my health problems and also referred to my only means of support/income was State Benefits.
He continued by stating he must recover full costs or goods . OFFENCE NUMBER 3 – SECTION 3 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006

He kept saying he would hold the Locksmiths/Police off to allow me time to consider payment first. OFFENCE NUMBER 4 – SECTION 2 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006 ALSO OFFENCE UNDER THE PROTECTION FROM HARRASSMENT ACT 1997
The elements of the offence are: Section 1(1)

• a course of conduct;
• which amounts to harassment of another;
• which the defendant knows, or ought to know amounts to harassment of another.

Section 7 (Archbold: 19-277g) defines a course of conduct as involving conduct on at least two occasions.
The defendant ought to know if his course of conduct amounts to harassment if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.
Harassment is not defined, but includes causing alarm or distress, and conduct is defined as including speech.
Section 7(3)A provides that:

• Conduct by one person shall also be taken to be conduct by another if that other has aided, abetted, counselled or procured the conduct.
• The knowledge and purpose of the person who aids, abets, counsels or procures conduct are what was contemplated or reasonably foreseeable at the time of the aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring and not when the conduct occurs.

This puts the company as being liable for the actions of the staff they employ – one of which is the Bailiff

It is worth noting that all of the offences under the Protection from Harassment Act are Arrestable offences – a police officer can arrest anyone breaching this Act and there can be Restraining Orders made against the offender and the Company

The bailiff returned and I considered not responding to him/opening the door?
The lack of my response to his knocking, caused him to start shouting through my letter box, re enforcing previous threats of payment required in full now, “dont be silly open the door, I am trying to help you.” OFFENCE NUMBER 6 UNDER THE PROTECTION FROM HARRASSMENT ACT 1997

I felt very intimidated and extremely embarrassed as I live in a small cul-de-sac and my neighbours (only four houses) would certainly have heard chapter & verse.
This prompted me to open the door again and I restated my case, saying that there was no way I could find that amount of money.
He was adamant that there was nothing he could do, but act on the Distress Warrant issued against me and full recovery required. OFFENCE NUMBER 7 – SECTION 2 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006

He was really stressing me out now and I became very anxious and agitated, not knowing any of my Rights, or if indeed I had any. OFFENCE NUMBER 8 – SECTION 3 OF THE FRAUD ACT 2006

I pondered on the possibility of my car being seized and feared this happening and my sons schooling/education being affected, as I have to drive him and pick him up from school, he is disabled and has SEN, I was worried about the bailiff calling the locksmith/police and my sons goods being seized and the effect it might have on my son, in returning from school to find his possessions gone!
As he does not go out to play, he is reliant on home entertainment, in the form of Computers, Game Consoles, and the like. I was dreading these might be taken as would not be considered 'basic essentials'.

The Bailiff remained positioned outside the front of my house, and eventually I had to telephone a 'loan shark; to secure payment. Which would at least get the bailiffs off my back and remove the threat of my car being ceased and my home ransacked.

I am now repaying this loan, at an extortionate rate and regret my decision. Unfortunately my health is an issue, not always allowing me to battle things out as much as I would like, as any exertion really does take its toll on my heart/breathing and anxiety. So I really had no choice.'

My apologies for the length of this post, but I really do hope this helps.
I know how very intimidating these people can be, it is not too late to complain to the Police - BUT you will need expert Legal Advice, and you seem to qualify for Legal Aid....there may also be a Civil Claim for Damages (the difference between what you shopuld be paying and what you are paying the 'loan shark'.

As ever my very best wishes to all


Dougal

[co770nmouth66]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Hi Guys and Gals, Just a little input, hope it's helpful. Having been very recently on the receiving end of a Marstons Bailiff, I decided to use what I know and dig a little deeper using the internet. It is incredibly easy to check the certificated status of a Bailiff using the www.justice.gov website, just put in the name and you are off and running, there is also a phone number you can call to check on a Bailiffs licensed status. A Bailiffs license is only valid for a 2 year period and must be renewed in order to remain valid. They will also tell you if the Bailiff was registered prior to the 2 year period of issue shown on the site, very helpful. A Bailiff can ONLY force entry if your fine is criminal in nature and/or has been issued in relation to a tax matter, and then only as a last resort.
If you are deemed to be vulnerable, again see the above site for definitions of this, Her Majesty's Court Service rules are very clear. You DO NOT have to provide evidence of this to the Bailiff at the door despite what they may tell you. If the enforcement agent has been made aware either by you or someone else at your address, then he/she has a duty to return to the Court for further advice, failure to do so is in breach of this ruling.

You have an absolute right to request to the Court that you wish to have your case re-heard. Further, you may also attend your local Magistrates Court to make a sworn declaration. This will be in the event of you having received no previous warnings or letters alerting you to the fact that Bailiff action is imminent. It won't cost you a penny, just arrive and speak to the Court Usher, taking with you the original case number if known. If not the Usher can find it for you. As soon as this declaration is signed by the Magistrates and they are happy with your response, all enforcement action must immediately cease. Your case will be returned to the issuing authority and either re-heard or dismissed if it's an old case.

Nobody can enter your home unless you allow them entry, no matter what they may tell you. The Police will only ever attend to prevent a breach of the peace. They will most definately not allow the Bailiff to make forced entry, even if you open your door to find Bailiffs and Police Officers you do NOT have to allow them entry.

Another small but significant tip, most of us carry mobiles now right?.....if you are getting harrassed by Bailiffs, or perhaps they are trying to force their way in unlawfully, sticking hands through letterboxes etc, talking to your neighbours (Breach of Confidentiality) I could go on, just hit RECORD on your phones video, even if you are talking to them at the door, nobody wants to be caught on camera knowingly misrepresenting their powers and in most cases using intimidation tactics and bullying, mind you, there are some seriously thug mentality "I'm hard" egotistical idiots out there who wouldn't care or indeed have the savvy to realise, or perhaps think that they have superpowers and are invincible *cough Marstons cough*.

Sadly the idiot that tried to intimidate me didn't bet for one minute that she would get bitten back, and she so has, the Courts are aware, the Magistrates themselves demanded I complain and even contacted Marstons directly by phone whilst I was in Court putting them on Notice of the sworn declaration and that any further action would cease immediately! I am also in the process of getting her licence revoked by the issuing court, in this case Medway. Oh and by the way, I did raise my voice back at her, making it very clear she would not have a good day out if she tried to lie any further than she already had, let alone try and enter my property or take my car. Not surprisingly she put the phone down on me. What a shame
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Oh and by the way.....sorry I am new here!......This was for a minor traffic offence back in 2008, which held an originating fine of just £60. Guess what the Marstons muppet tried to get?......£1145.00!!!!! Oh dear, bet there won;t be any rounds on muppet tonight down the pub! LLOLOL

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff attends home, with Distress Warrant.

Nice result, well done.