Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Their letter does not satisfy the requirements of your Subject Access Request for a whole host of reasons.

Did your sister-in-law send them the reminder letter that I wrote at post #22?
yes,we did and the above letter was their response back and which also included a copy of the warrant, the table of fees,etc, but no copies of letters, bailiffs certificates etc

They need to do as they have been instructed, at the very least, they must comply with each and every point below. They obviously have not complied according to the SAR then

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

Furthermore, bailiffs collecting money owed for parking fines can only charge £10 for sending a letter and only if they actually send it.

They can charge for visit fees, but these can only be a reasonable cost for the visit. These cannot be more than the amounts they could charge if you had let them in and they can only charge you for the first three visits. They usually also charge for the cost of the van even though no walking possession agreement is in place. Because of this, these fees can be challenged on the basis that they are disproportionate to the original debt and also because, if there has been no entry to the premises, it is not known if you have anything which could justify the addition of such large extra expenses. It should be noted that, unless a valid, legal and signed Levy or Order for Walking Possession has already been obtained, then the Bailiffs are attending to collect money and not goods and therefore the attendance of a van is not a matter that the alleged debtor should be obliged to pay for.

The “National Standard for Enforcement Agents” issued by the Department of Constitutional Affairs has a section titled “Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent” which among other things states:-

“Enforcement agents will on each occasion when a visit is made to a debtor’s property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.”

We need to know some key pieces of information.

1) When was the Warrant of Execution issued by the Court?
2) The names of the bailiffs who attended on the dates they state they made visits along with copies of their certificates.
3) Copies of any and all documentation left at your sister-in-law's house.
4) Copies of all letters sent to your sister-in-law in relation to this alleged debt.

Thanks Cet, I may have to draft up another letter for my SIL requesting all of the missing info above. As mentioned below, I have posted up what she has already given me.

This is in addition to any of the points in the list above which was taken from the original Subject Access Request.

If CCS Enforcement Services fail to comply, they they can be sued under s.7 and s.15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

Thanks for this Cet. Am a bit disappointed that they haven't complied with everything.
I'm gonna give my SIL a quick call to see if there was anything else that CCS may have sent her regarding the bits of missing info.. Otherwise we will have to draft up another letter. She only gave me what I have already posted up. I will update after I speak to her if there is anything more to post up.

bfxx
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

It is not impossible, but I wonder why, if the date of contravention was 28th April 2007, the Local Authority waited for over fourteen and a half months to enforce an unpaid and clearly uncontested parking ticket?

This is exactly what we were both thinking Cet, over 14 months is a long time. You also cannot contest something if you don't know what your supposed to be contesting about in the first place. For her to contest,she would need letters,court papers etc to refer to. The whole situation could of been 'knocked on the head' back in 2007 (if that makes any sense lol)

Have your sister-in-law call Northampton County Court on Monday morning (Traffic Enforcement Centre 0845 704 5007 or 01604 619450) and ask them when the warrant was applied for and issued by the court.

We will do this first thing Monday morning, thanks Cet x

bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

The warrant must have been issued by a court, probably Northampton County Court Bulk Centre. There will be a date of issue on that warrant, which was the date that the local authority will have applied to the courts to enforce the unpaid parking ticket and the Court issued the warrant.

Hi Cet and all:santa3:

I was meant to do this yesterday, got sidetracked lol.

I have finally found out the date we are looking for from Kingston Parking (local authority) when they applied for the Warrant of Execution (been a nightmare trying to get through on the phone this morning)

the date is: 12 June 2008 (this date is not on the warrant itself.)

So, this is an update of following timelines >

It's been 14 months since the original date of contravention.
It's also exactly 28/29 working days elapsed between the application for Warrant and the issue from Court to the Enforcement Officer and 50 days between issue from Court to the morning of bailiffs visit.



Just need to add this bit as I have just had an interesting convo just now with an Admin Officer from the Helpdesk at the NTEC (Northampton Traffic Enforcement Centre)

Good news is...he says that my SIL can still file a Late Statutory Declaration Form to contest the original PCN (Penalty Charge Notice), he has emailed us an Out Of Time application pack for us to fill in. He says that if she didnt have any knowledge regarding original PCN,then she still has a right to contest.(We honestly didn't think she could still do this, we thought it was too late because bailiffs had already recovered sums. So that's good news IMO)

However, he also says that she would still need to go through CCS Enforcement regarding her quibble about the bailiffs van fees/costs etc..Looks like we may be on the right track regarding her original PCN tho

Am gonna draft up another letter for her to send to CCS regarding >

1) When was the Warrant of Execution issued by the Court? (Confirmation this morning from Local Authority ) 12 June 2008
2) The names of the bailiffs who attended on the dates they state they made visits along with copies of their certificates. Pending
3) Copies of any and all documentation left at your sister-in-law's house. Pending
4) Copies of all letters sent to your sister-in-law in relation to this alleged debt. Pending

bfxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

A Notice to Owner should be served within six months of the issue of the Penalty Charge Notice upon which it is based. After the expiry of this period, it is still open to the authority to show that the delay in service of the Notice to Owner was not unreasonable in all of the circumstances. Given that the date of contravention was April 2007 then I would be tempted to request a copy of the original PCN from Kingston along with details of the Notice to Owner that they sent, if indeed they sent one.

With regard to CCS Enforcement, they know what to do and if they do not comply then your sister-in-law can sue them for non-compliance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

They have a few weeks left, just send them the following.

Dear

Re: Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

On (date you wrote the SAR) I sent a formal Subject Access Request and included the statutory maximum fee of £10, according to the above Act, which was received by your office on 18th November, as confirmed in your letter of (date they replied) which I received on (Date their letter was received)

Due to a misunderstanding by your office, I was obliged to write again, on (date you sent the reminder letter, as per my post #22) and reiterate my request for information. I have attached a copy of both my original letter of (date you wrote the SAR) and my letter of (date you wrote again - as per my post #22) for your convenience. I do not propose to repeat myself again in this, my third letter on the subject and would suggest that you attend to my request as a matter of urgency.

This letter has been sent by first class post and therefore should have reached you by (calculate the date) and the date of receipt will be indicated by Royal Mail's service audit. I have no doubt that you will be aware, as of this date your statutory 40 days for compliance will be almost expired.

I am prepared to accept that the lack of information sent thus far is a genuine oversight on your part and look forward to receiving the information I requested. However, should the statutory deadline expire without receipt of the information that I have requested and given that I have been forced to write for a third time, I will be left with no alternative but to commence a County Court action under s.7 and s.15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998 when I shall seek a Court order obliging you to comply together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without further notice to you.

Furthermore I will escalate this matter into an official complaint to the Information Commissioner.



Yours sincerely

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Just need to add this bit as I have just had an interesting convo just now with an Admin Officer from the Helpdesk at the NTEC (Northampton Traffic Enforcement Centre)

Good news is...he says that my SIL can still file a Late Statutory Declaration Form to contest the original PCN (Penalty Charge Notice), he has emailed us an Out Of Time application pack for us to fill in. He says that if she didnt have any knowledge regarding original PCN,then she still has a right to contest.(We honestly didn't think she could still do this, we thought it was too late because bailiffs had already recovered sums. So that's good news IMO)

The Statutory Declaration is a formal statement, sworn under oath, to the effect that an earlier stage in the procedure had not been completed or that you were not aware of what should have happened before the debt was registered or a warrant was issued.

Although your sister-in-law has already been visited by bailiffs and paid she may still complete a Statutory Declaration, which, if successful will enable her to apply for a refund of the fees charged. Of course, as was pointed out, she must complete an "Out of Time" Statutory Declaration.

A valid Statutory Declaration will cancel the Order for Recovery, the Charge Certificate and sometimes the Notice to Owner. It does not cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. It does however cancel the 50% increase in the Penalty Charge Notice. It should be noted however, that it is a criminal offence to wilfully make a false statutory declaration.

For a PCN in London only one ground can be indicated on the Statutory Declaration which should be that your sister-in-law did not receive the notice to owner / enforcement notice.

If you need any help completing this, let me know.

Finally, CCS Enforcement can be pursued separately for their excessive fees and the fact that it appears that they were not attempting to collect an expired warrant does not absolve them of any liability to repay your sister-in-law.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

A Notice to Owner should be served within six months of the issue of the Penalty Charge Notice upon which it is based. After the expiry of this period, it is still open to the authority to show that the delay in service of the Notice to Owner was not unreasonable in all of the circumstances. Given that the date of contravention was April 2007 then I would be tempted to request a copy of the original PCN from Kingston along with details of the Notice to Owner that they sent, if indeed they sent one.

With regard to CCS Enforcement, they know what to do and if they do not comply then your sister-in-law can sue them for non-compliance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

They have a few weeks left, just send them the following into your draft..

:santa3:

Thankyou Cet, I will send the above asap and will also incorporate the following >>>

2) The names of the bailiffs who attended on the dates they state they made visits along with copies of their certificates.
3) Copies of any and all documentation left at your sister-in-law's house.
4) Copies of all letters sent to your sister-in-law in relation to this alleged debt

bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

The Statutory Declaration is a formal statement, sworn under oath, to the effect that an earlier stage in the procedure had not been completed or that you were not aware of what should have happened before the debt was registered or a warrant was issued.

Although your sister-in-law has already been visited by bailiffs and paid she may still complete a Statutory Declaration, which, if successful will enable her to apply for a refund of the fees charged. Of course, as was pointed out, she must complete an "Out of Time" Statutory Declaration.

A valid Statutory Declaration will cancel the Order for Recovery, the Charge Certificate and sometimes the Notice to Owner. It does not cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. It does however cancel the 50% increase in the Penalty Charge Notice. It should be noted however, that it is a criminal offence to wilfully make a false statutory declaration.

For a PCN in London only one ground can be indicated on the Statutory Declaration which should be that your sister-in-law did not receive the notice to owner / enforcement notice.

If you need any help completing this, let me know.

Thankyou Cet, yes we will definatley need your help on this if we may.

Finally, CCS Enforcement can be pursued separately for their excessive fees and the fact that it appears that they were not attempting to collect an expired warrant does not absolve them of any liability to repay your sister-in-law.

Yes you are right Cet, CCS did not enforce an expired warrant. The dates and timelines clearly show this in my above post #32. There is still also the issue of the bailiffs supposedly 'first and second attempted visits with an attendance van' to contest, so we will work on that too.

:santa3:

Declaration is attached to below post


bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

The Statutory Declaration is a formal statement, sworn under oath, to the effect that an earlier stage in the procedure had not been completed or that you were not aware of what should have happened before the debt was registered or a warrant was issued.

Although your sister-in-law has already been visited by bailiffs and paid she may still complete a Statutory Declaration, which, if successful will enable her to apply for a refund of the fees charged. Of course, as was pointed out, she must complete an "Out of Time" Statutory Declaration.

A valid Statutory Declaration will cancel the Order for Recovery, the Charge Certificate and sometimes the Notice to Owner. It does not cancel the Penalty Charge Notice. It does however cancel the 50% increase in the Penalty Charge Notice. It should be noted however, that it is a criminal offence to wilfully make a false statutory declaration.

For a PCN in London only one ground can be indicated on the Statutory Declaration which should be that your sister-in-law did not receive the notice to owner / enforcement notice.

If you need any help completing this, let me know.

Thankyou Cet, yes we will definatley need your help on this if we may.

Finally, CCS Enforcement can be pursued separately for their excessive fees and the fact that it appears that they were not attempting to collect an expired warrant does not absolve them of any liability to repay your sister-in-law.

Yes you are right Cet, CCS did not enforce an expired warrant. The dates and timelines clearly show this in my above post #32. There is still also the issue of the bailiffs supposedly 'first and second attempted visits with an attendance van' to contest, so we will work on that too.

:santa3:

Here is the Declaration form attached here >>>

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

In this case, I would also write to Kingston requesting copies of all letters sent in relation to this PCN, since the first your sister-in-law knew of it was when the CCS thugs turned up. If they fail to send what you ask for, serve them with a Subject Access Request.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Cet :santa3:


I have stayed up late to post this, been on the phone to my SIL the last hour lol

This is for when you log in your own time Cet

Please could you help my SIL with these bits which are on the Statutory Declaration Form she was given...

She knows what to do in the first bit 'I did not receive the Notice to Owner' etc etc..it's the bit in the boxes she is stuck with, she says she can't just put "I did not receive.......( and we have never had to fill in one of these before)

□ I did not receive the:
Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or
Enforcement Notice (Bus lane contravention) or
Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)
□ I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice.
□ I appealed to the Parking/Traffic Adjudicator against the local authority’s decision to reject my representation, within 28 days of service of the rejection notice, but have had no response to my appeal.

My reasons are (give full reasons)







My reasons for filing the Statutory Declaration outside the given time are as follows:
(Do not give your reasons for appeal against the original penalty charge on this form).










------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

In this case, I would also write to Kingston requesting copies of all letters sent in relation to this PCN, since the first your sister-in-law knew of it was when the CCS thugs turned up. If they fail to send what you ask for, serve them with a Subject Access Request.

I have called the Kingston office and requested copies of all letters. I will give them a few days to comply ( they could very well be sent after chrimbo now, as there's only a few days left to go. Offices will start to close for xmas break. So will wait til after then, if they don't then I will send them an SAR in new year.


bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Cet :santa3:


I have stayed up late to post this, been on the phone to my SIL the last hour lol

This is for when you log in your own time Cet

Please could you help my SIL with these bits which are on the Statutory Declaration Form she was given...

She knows what to do in the first bit 'I did not receive the Notice to Owner' etc etc..it's the bit in the boxes she is stuck with, she says she can't just put "I did not receive.......( and we have never had to fill in one of these before)

□ I did not receive the:
Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or
Enforcement Notice (Bus lane contravention) or
Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)
□ I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice.
□ I appealed to the Parking/Traffic Adjudicator against the local authority’s decision to reject my representation, within 28 days of service of the rejection notice, but have had no response to my appeal.

My reasons are (give full reasons)







My reasons for filing the Statutory Declaration outside the given time are as follows:
(Do not give your reasons for appeal against the original penalty charge on this form).










------------------------------- merged -------------------------------


I have called the Kingston office and requested copies of all letters. I will give them a few days to comply ( they could very well be sent after chrimbo now, as there's only a few days left to go. Offices will start to close for xmas break. So will wait til after then, if they don't then I will send them an SAR in new year.


bfxx

Hi Everyone


This form above has been unfilled and stuck in limbo over the xmas period. I am hoping I can give this in to the court to be signed sometime this week.

I'm just having some trouble and need some help with the wording, the bit where it says "I did not receive Notice to Owner etc etc applies to my sister in law. I have never filled in one of these forms before myself. (I'm worried about making a pigs ear of it lol )

Any suggestions please anyone?


bfxx


Let there be bubbles ooo00OO

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Your sister-in-law needs to tick the box next to the first reason on the form - the bit that begins with...

"□ I did not receive the:
Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or
Enforcement Notice (Bus lane contravention) or
Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)"

Leave the rest blank. She cannot know the reasons why if she did not receive the original enforcement notice or the subsequent notice to owner.

[tomtubby]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

I'm sorry, but I have only just seen this thread so do not know if you have yet filed the Out of Time.

If you leave any boxes blank you risk having the form rejected by TEC.

On the PE2 where it asks you the reason why you did not receive the Notice to Order or why you did not receive a response to the representation the normal answer that we use is to say as follows:

I DO NOT KNOW THE REASON WHY I DID NOT RECEIVE A NOTICE TO OWNER IN RELATION TO THE ABOVE PARKING CHARGE NOTICE.

On the PE3 you have to state the reason WHY you are filing the Declaration LATE.

I would suggest something along the following lines:

I AM MAKING THIS DECLARATION OUTSIDE OF THE GIVEN TIME AS IT WAS NOT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A BAILIFF FROM XXXX lTD CLAMPED MY VEHICLE AND DEMANDED A SUM OF £XXX THAT I WAS MADE AWARE OF THIS PCN. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED COPIES OF ANY STATUTORY NOTICES.


If you have any further queries please do let me know. Did you confirm that the address on the Warrant is the correct address for your Sister in Law?

The fees that the bailiff have charged are completely wrong. I will post the correct fees here later. Did the bailiff provide a Notice of Seizure of goods and Inventory and if so, what date was this provided?


www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

I'm sorry, but I have only just seen this thread so do not know if you have yet filed the Out of Time.

Luckily me and my SIL have not got round to filing the Stat Dec form as of yet. She came back from Wales just after xmas and we got new year out the way ...then I fell unwell....

If you leave any boxes blank you risk having the form rejected by TEC.

On the PE2 where it asks you the reason why you did not receive the Notice to Order or why you did not receive a response to the representation the normal answer that we use is to say as follows:

I DO NOT KNOW THE REASON WHY I DID NOT RECEIVE A NOTICE TO OWNER IN RELATION TO THE ABOVE PARKING CHARGE NOTICE.

On the PE3 you have to state the reason WHY you are filing the Declaration LATE.

I would suggest something along the following lines:

I AM MAKING THIS DECLARATION OUTSIDE OF THE GIVEN TIME AS IT WAS NOT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A BAILIFF FROM XXXX lTD CLAMPED MY VEHICLE AND DEMANDED A SUM OF £XXX THAT I WAS MADE AWARE OF THIS PCN. I HAVE NOT RECEIVED COPIES OF ANY STATUTORY NOTICES.


If you have any further queries please do let me know. Did you confirm that the address on the Warrant is the correct address for your Sister in Law?

yes it is the right address..

The fees that the bailiff have charged are completely wrong. I will post the correct fees here later. Did the bailiff provide a Notice of Seizure of goods and Inventory and if so, what date was this provided?

My SIL didn't receive any kind of Notice of Seizure of goods and Inventory as it wasn't til the bailiffs turned up on her doorstep that it was the first time she knew about the PCN.

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

Hi Tomtubby

Thankyou so much for your response. I have answered the questions above in purple.

bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi all

I can finally now resume this thread where I had left off! it's been a long while since and I haven't been able to update due to mine and my sister in laws personal commitments...also...TEC have a backlog of a few weeks and are running behind with all their Statutory Declaration applications...

My SIL has finally now received a response from TEC regarding her Stat Dec which she filed a while ago...

Unfortunatley,they have declined her application and they have given her the option of applying to set this decision aside and having her application reviewed by a District Judge.

They have sent her an application notice N244 Form to fill in..and she has 14 days in which to do this..


I have typed out TEC's response (my scanner is having an offday)


Dear Sir/Madam,

The above penalty charge was refused to the Court Officer for a decision without a hearing under Part 75.5 (1) of the civil procedural rules. The order enclosed is to inform you of the court officers decision to refuse your application to file your stat dec out of time witness statement.

The TEC (Traffic Enforcement Centre) is unable to assist with any queries you may have regarding why the application was refused. Reasons are not held on court record and the court officer is not reuired to give an explanation for refusal.

If you wish to apply to set this decision aside, complete the attached form (N244) and refer to the guidance notes attached to this letter.

If you wish to have your application reviewed by a district judge,without notice to the local authority the fee payable is £40. Should you wish to have your application heard by a district judge,on-notice to the local authority,the fee payable is £75.


What's the next step and how to tackle this?. Does anyone know what my SIL needs to write on this form? She hasn't filed one of these before(nor have I for that matter lol)

Thanxs for any help in advance,we both really appreciate this

bfxx

[Amy]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Did the bailiffs ever supply all the requested information at #29?

Did you SAR the Kingston office as per post #38?