Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi All


Update..


After my sister in law sending off an SAR to CCS Enforcement which they received on the 18th Nov,she has now received a response from them.

Dear *****


Thankyou for your letter which was received by us on the 18th November 2008

We have initiated an investigation into the issues raised in your letter and will respond to you within the next 28 days. Please be aware that should your account remain open and outstanding, the bailiff action will continue whilst this investigation is under way.


In the meantime, should you require any further assistance,please do not hesitate to contact us directly at the address listed below.

yours sincerely







We guess this is a bog standard reply as usual.

But we dont understand this bit.. quote "Please be aware that should your account remain open and outstanding, bailiff action will continue whilst this investigation is under way"

Given the fact that they have already fleeced my SIL of £651 quid, you would of thought that they should already have it on their records that 'bailiff action' has already occured??! dimwits !


Any thoughts Cet or anyone?


Bf xx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

That would appear to be a template letter from CCS Enforcement, which is why it contains the line "Please be aware that should your account remain open and outstanding, bailiff action will continue whilst this investigation is under way" and can be ignored, but retained. The interesting stuff will happen when you can go through what they send as a result of the SAR.

You should also write to the local authority on who's behalf CCS were operating. They are liable for the actions of their agents and if they are sending agents out to collect expired warrants, they too are breaking the law.

Write to them and demand to see copies of the Warrant and when it was issued and they should also be able to give you the names of the bailiffs who visited your sister-in-law as CCS will have paid them for the alleged outstanding parking fine.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

That would appear to be a template letter from CCS Enforcement, which is why it contains the line "Please be aware that should your account remain open and outstanding, bailiff action will continue whilst this investigation is under way" and can be ignored, but retained. The interesting stuff will happen when you can go through what they send as a result of the SAR.

You should also write to the local authority on who's behalf CCS were operating. They are liable for the actions of their agents and if they are sending agents out to collect expired warrants, they too are breaking the law.

Write to them and demand to see copies of the Warrant and when it was issued and they should also be able to give you the names of the bailiffs who visited your sister-in-law as CCS will have paid them for the alleged outstanding parking fine.

Hi Cet x


Thankyou for your response.

Just to clarify a bit more.. My SIL also sent a copy of her letter to the local authority of whom CCS were working for, so we presume she may receive a letter from them too in due course we hope.

It will be interesting to see what their reply is..


Will a copy of the warrant be sent under the SAR ? or does it come under a separate request?


Thanxs Cet



bfxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Cet x


Thankyou for your response.

Just to clarify a bit more.. My SIL also sent a copy of her letter to the local authority of whom CCS were working for, so we presume she may receive a letter from them too in due course we hope.

It will be interesting to see what their reply is..


Will a copy of the warrant be sent under the SAR ? or does it come under a separate request?


Thanxs Cet



bfxx

A copy of the warrant should have been shown at the time the money was taken. The fact that it was not suggests strongly that it was out of time but they hoped that the alleged debtor was not aware of their rights.

It will be included with the documents sent as a result of the SAR and if they do not produce it, or will not, then I believe that you have a claim for the return of the money paid, plus interest and a sum for the distress caused. Furthermore, the demanding of that money would be a criminal offence.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

A copy of the warrant should have been shown at the time the money was taken. The fact that it was not suggests strongly that it was out of time but they hoped that the alleged debtor was not aware of their rights.

It will be included with the documents sent as a result of the SAR and if they do not produce it, or will not, then I believe that you have a claim for the return of the money paid, plus interest and a sum for the distress caused. Furthermore, the demanding of that money would be a criminal offence.

Hi All / Cet x

My Sister-in-law has now received this morning the relevant 'documents' relating to her SAR from CCS Enforcement Services.

However, no documents were sent to my SIL regarding the 'warrant' or anything else relating to the SAR. No copies of letters relating to the account. No info about the original parking fine etc. no Court papers. In fact, nothing was sent as was requested from the following list. Can't say we are surprised.


1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

The only thing she received was this letter as follows :
I have typed this out myself,due to scanner having an 'off' day lol

Dear Sir /Madam,


Total Outstanding £0.00
Due to Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames in relation to a ES RTA Basic 2 Let debt.

Further to your request for a breakdown of payments made to settle the above debt,we detail on the reverse all monies received. ( on the reverse of letter, all it says is the amount which was paid over to the bailiffs, £651.68, no explanation of breakdown of fees)

If you dissagree with any of this schedule,please forward proof of payments in order that we may resolve your query.

yours faithfully

CCS

What should be the next step please?

Just to also add, my SIL called Kingston parking office and was told by the guy that the original parking fine (PCN ) was for the amount of £125.


bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Everyone




Bumpety :bump:

What should I be doing in the next step please in regard to my last post?? Shall I just go for the kill and send them a Prelim request??




Bffxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

They have 40 days in which to respond to the SAR, it has only been 13 days. Send them this reminder.

Thank you for your letter of (date), which I received on (date) and for the information contained therein.

Notwithstanding the above, I have formally requested, under the Data Protection Act 1998 full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. This was communicated to you in my letter of (date you wrote the SAR), a copy of which I have enclosed for your convenience and which you confirm was received by your company on 18th November.

Consequently I must inform you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the above Act.

Your statutory 40 days for compliance expires on 29th December however and I would respectfully request that you comply with the above Act and send the information that I have requested before the expiry of the deadline.


Yours sincerely

If, as we suspect, the warrant was served out of time, you can recover the money, but it seems that so far all you have been receiving is template letters. If they fail to respond to the SAR, you can sue them, but not until the 40 days have expired.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

They have 40 days in which to respond to the SAR, it has only been 13 days. Send them this reminder.



If, as we suspect, the warrant was served out of time, you can recover the money, but it seems that so far all you have been receiving is template letters. If they fail to respond to the SAR, you can sue them, but not until the 40 days have expired.

Hi Cet


Thank you very much for your reply Cet.

I will now send them this reminder on behalf of my SIL, and then will wait til the 40 days has expired before we do anything else.

The above letter they sent in post 20 obviously doesn't mean what it says.. A typical case of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

I will update as soon as we hear back from CCS.


bfxx

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Cet

Thank you very much for your reply Cet.

I will now send them this reminder on behalf of my SIL, and then will wait til the 40 days has expired before we do anything else.

The above letter they sent in post 20 obviously doesn't mean what it says.. A typical case of the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

I will update as soon as we hear back from CCS.

bfxx

Hi all :santa3:

I have just had a phone call from my SIL, and she says that she has just received a reply letter and the documents regarding her SAR request from CCS Enforcement.

I have typed out this reply letter manually, cos my scanner has gone on holiday lol


Dear *****

"Thankyou for your SAR request dated 13th Nov 2008 in which we received on the 17th Nov. Date of Contravention 28th April 2007

This penalty charge Notice was issued to ourselves on the 23rd July 2008 from our client Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames in the name of *****. I am afraid it would be inappropriate if we were to comment on matters relating to the validity or otherwise of issued Penalty Charge Notices or indeed to the processes leading to the issue of Warrants.

Whilst I note that you may have a dispute with our instructing client in regard to this matter, I must advise that any such dispute is beyond our jurisdiction which is restricted to the enforcement of warrants of execution issued under the provisions of the Road traffic Act 1991. This is the limit to our responsibility.

I can confirm that our records show a pre-enforcement letter was sent to you on 24th July 2008. This letter clearly states the following: ( as far as my SIL knows, no letter was sent)

With respect to the fees/costs you have incurred , I must inform you that these charges have been calculated in accordance with the authority of the recovery of road traffic debts.(certificated bailiffs) Regulations 1993/2072(l17) (as amended 2003). These charges represent the cost of enforcement action since the warrant was first issued to CCS Enforcement Services Limited on 23rd July 2008.

I enclose a copy of the Warrant of Execution" (first time my SIL has seen it
They also havent enclosed a copy of original ticket)

the breakdown of fees is as follows:

23/07/08 Debt £125
24/07/08 Pre-enf letter fee (eh? ) £11.20 + VAT £1.96
14/08/08 DVLA Check (eh? ) £3.50
15/08/08 Visit fee 1 (eh?) £38.14 + VAT £6.67
27/09/08 Visit fee 2 (eh?) £48.82 + VAT £8.54
27/09/08 Attendance van (eh?) £144.50 + VAT £25.29
02/10/08 Visit fee 3 (this was first visit ! )£57.27 + VAT £10.00
02/10/08 Attendance Van £144.50 + VAT £25.29
03/10/08 payment by DC £1.00

Total of fees that was paid to CCS £651.68 (talk about extortionate)

"These fees are justified and legal, and in line with both current legislation as set down by the Ministry of Justice, and the code of practice agreed between CCSES and its client Royal Borough of Kingston.

In respect of the matter concerning a copy of the warrant I can advise that it is standard procedure that the bailiff/s carries a copy of the warrant during the enforcement action and this warrant would have been shown to you upon request." (what if the 'debtor' doesn't know that he/she needs to ask for it "upon request"? and how would the 'debtor' know if the bailiff/s carried one on their person in the first place?)


In regards to the original correspondence from the local authority concerning the Penalty Charge Notice in 2007 and the pre-enforcement letter from CCS- these were not recieved by my SIL in the first place.

The 'first' visit on the '15/08/08' (and 'second visit' on the 27/09/08 with an 'Attendance Van') is also being disputed by my SIL.

However, the 3rd visit did happen when the two bailiffs turned up on her doorstep on the 2nd October 2008 to collect the sums above.


bfxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

On which date was the warrant issued?

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

On which date was the warrant issued?

Hi Cet :santa3:

It says on the Warrant of Execution 'issued to the enforcement Officer' on the 23/7/08 This is the only date on the warrant..

The bit where it says the date 'Authorized by the Traffic Enforcement Centre is completely blank...


Im just editing my post to show a copy of the Warrant :



Penalty Charge No - ******
Vehicle Reg - ****
Location of Contravention - ***
Date of Contravention -28th April 2007
Applicant - Royal Borough Of Kingston

Amount Due £125



You have failed to pay a penalty charge registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northamptom County Court as ordered. The Court has given authority to the above named applicant to issue this warrant to recover the sums above.

the bailiff is entitled to include their reasonable costs for executing this warrant. These are listed in the Road Traffic Debts (certificated bailiffs) Regulations.

This warrant can only be enforced by a bailiff carrying a certificate issued by a judge under the Distress for Rent Rules 1988


Authorised by the Traffic Enforcenment Centre - Date - (blank)

Issued to the Enforcement Officer - Date - 23/7/08




bfxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

The warrant must have been issued by a court, probably Northampton County Court Bulk Centre. There will be a date of issue on that warrant, which was the date that the local authority will have applied to the courts to enforce the unpaid parking ticket and the Court issued the warrant.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

The warrant must have been issued by a court, probably Northampton County Court Bulk Centre. There will be a date of issue on that warrant, which was the date that the local authority will have applied to the courts to enforce the unpaid parking ticket and the Court issued the warrant.

Yes Cet,it was issued by Northampton County Court and its just dawned on me that I'm presuming that date is the same for both maybe. Authorized by the Bulk Centre and issued to the Enforcement Officer on the same day? hence why they left it blank? Or should there be a different date?


There is no mention of any date on the warrant by local authority regarding when it was issued by them. As you say Cet, this should obviously be on there, why it is not is beyond me.


Brain block today lol

bfxx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi all :santa3:

I have just had a phone call from my SIL, and she says that she has just received a reply letter and the documents regarding her SAR request from CCS Enforcement.

I have typed out this reply letter manually, cos my scanner has gone on holiday lol


Dear *****

"Thankyou for your SAR request dated 13th Nov 2008 in which we received on the 17th Nov. Date of Contravention 28th April 2007

This penalty charge Notice was issued to ourselves on the 23rd July 2008 from our client Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames in the name of *****. I am afraid it would be inappropriate if we were to comment on matters relating to the validity or otherwise of issued Penalty Charge Notices or indeed to the processes leading to the issue of Warrants.

Whilst I note that you may have a dispute with our instructing client in regard to this matter, I must advise that any such dispute is beyond our jurisdiction which is restricted to the enforcement of warrants of execution issued under the provisions of the Road traffic Act 1991. This is the limit to our responsibility.

I can confirm that our records show a pre-enforcement letter was sent to you on 24th July 2008. This letter clearly states the following: ( as far as my SIL knows, no letter was sent)

With respect to the fees/costs you have incurred , I must inform you that these charges have been calculated in accordance with the authority of the recovery of road traffic debts.(certificated bailiffs) Regulations 1993/2072(l17) (as amended 2003). These charges represent the cost of enforcement action since the warrant was first issued to CCS Enforcement Services Limited on 23rd July 2008.

I enclose a copy of the Warrant of Execution" (first time my SIL has seen it
They also havent enclosed a copy of original ticket)

the breakdown of fees is as follows:

23/07/08 Debt £125
24/07/08 Pre-enf letter fee (eh? ) £11.20 + VAT £1.96
14/08/08 DVLA Check (eh? ) £3.50
15/08/08 Visit fee 1 (eh?) £38.14 + VAT £6.67
27/09/08 Visit fee 2 (eh?) £48.82 + VAT £8.54
27/09/08 Attendance van (eh?) £144.50 + VAT £25.29
02/10/08 Visit fee 3 (this was first visit ! )£57.27 + VAT £10.00
02/10/08 Attendance Van £144.50 + VAT £25.29
03/10/08 payment by DC £1.00

Total of fees that was paid to CCS £651.68 (talk about extortionate)

"These fees are justified and legal, and in line with both current legislation as set down by the Ministry of Justice, and the code of practice agreed between CCSES and its client Royal Borough of Kingston.

In respect of the matter concerning a copy of the warrant I can advise that it is standard procedure that the bailiff/s carries a copy of the warrant during the enforcement action and this warrant would have been shown to you upon request." (what if the 'debtor' doesn't know that he/she needs to ask for it "upon request"? and how would the 'debtor' know if the bailiff/s carried one on their person in the first place?)


In regards to the original correspondence from the local authority concerning the Penalty Charge Notice in 2007 and the pre-enforcement letter from CCS- these were not recieved by my SIL in the first place.

The 'first' visit on the '15/08/08' (and 'second visit' on the 27/09/08 with an 'Attendance Van') is also being disputed by my SIL.

However, the 3rd visit did happen when the two bailiffs turned up on her doorstep on the 2nd October 2008 to collect the sums above.


bfxx

Their letter does not satisfy the requirements of your Subject Access Request for a whole host of reasons.

Did your sister-in-law send them the reminder letter that I wrote at post #22?

They need to do as they have been instructed, at the very least, they must comply with each and every point below.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

Furthermore, bailiffs collecting money owed for parking fines can charge for sending a letter but only if they actually send it.

They can charge for visit fees, but these can only be a reasonable cost for the visit. These cannot be more than the amounts they could charge if you had let them in and they can only charge you for the first three visits. They usually also charge for the cost of the van even though no walking possession agreement is in place. Because of this, these fees can be challenged on the basis that they are disproportionate to the original debt and also because, if there has been no entry to the premises, it is not known if you have anything which could justify the addition of such large extra expenses. It should be noted that, unless a valid, legal and signed Levy or Order for Walking Possession has already been obtained, then the Bailiffs are attending to collect money and not goods and therefore the attendance of a van is not a matter that the alleged debtor should be obliged to pay for.

The “National Standard for Enforcement Agents” issued by the Department of Constitutional Affairs has a section titled “Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent” which among other things states:-

“Enforcement agents will on each occasion when a visit is made to a debtor’s property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.”

We need to know some key pieces of information.

1) When was the Warrant of Execution issued by the Court?
2) The names of the bailiffs who attended on the dates they state they made visits along with copies of their certificates.
3) Copies of any and all documentation left at your sister-in-law's house.
4) Copies of all letters sent to your sister-in-law in relation to this alleged debt.

This is in addition to any of the points in the list above which was taken from the original Subject Access Request.

If CCS Enforcement Services fail to comply, they they can be sued under s.7 and s.15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Yes Cet,it was issued by Northampton County Court and its just dawned on me that I'm presuming that date is the same for both maybe. Authorized by the Bulk Centre and issued to the Enforcement Officer on the same day? hence why they left it blank? Or should there be a different date?


No mention of any date on the warrant by local authority regarding when it was issued by them


Brain block today lol

bfxx

It is not impossible, but I wonder why, if the date of contravention was 28th April 2007, the Local Authority waited for over fourteen and a half months to enforce an unpaid and clearly uncontested parking ticket?

Have your sister-in-law call Northampton County Court on Monday morning (Traffic Enforcement Centre 0845 704 5007 or 01604 619450) and ask them when the warrant was applied for and issued by the court.