Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

[bloomingflower]

Hi All


I am posting on behalf of my Sister in law to get some advice about her situation regarding her unpaid/forgotten parking ticket she had a while ago.

She called me last night to tell me she had a visit from a couple of bailiffs yesterday morning (CCS Enforcement Services) and she was really distraught.wondering what the hell was going on. She said she must of overlooked/forgot the initial parking ticket.

She lives on very little money as it is., has very little savings put by for emergencies etc, and has a son, who (my little nephew) has Achondroplasia,which is a form of dwarfism.

However, she had no choice and had to go into her savings to pay off the bailiffs, as they tried to enforce entry. (they told her they had a warrant, but never showed it to her.) The total amount paid was £651.68. Which in my eyes is really extortionate. This episode has left her rather traumatized and she was in tears when she called me. They didn't give her anything to show what that amount was for. The only thing they gave her was a receipt.

She said they were quite brutal in the way they dealt with the situation, and would not listen to what she was trying to tell them.


Has anyone got any advice I can give her, and has she lost that money for good?



Bf xx

[WendyB]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Don't really have much advice here, Cet is probably the one for that with regard to bailiffs. It does seem really excessive though. But surely she must have had previous letters etc about the unpaid fine? I know when I had a fine and forgot to pay it, i had a letter within about 2 weeks from the end of the 30 day period, then I believe you get a letter to the registered owner of the vehicle asking for info on who was driving etc. Not sure after that but would presume there would be further correspondence before the bailiffs got involved? I think if you don't reply to the letter asking for details it would probably go to court. So if its gone all that way, my opinion would be that there might not be a lot, if anything that could be done about it at that late stage. I know this probably sounds harsh. Sorry.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Don't really have much advice here, Cet is probably the one for that with regard to bailiffs. It does seem really excessive though. But surely she must have had previous letters etc about the unpaid fine? I know when I had a fine and forgot to pay it, i had a letter within about 2 weeks from the end of the 30 day period, then I believe you get a letter to the registered owner of the vehicle asking for info on who was driving etc. Not sure after that but would presume there would be further correspondence before the bailiffs got involved? I think if you don't reply to the letter asking for details it would probably go to court. So if its gone all that way, my opinion would be that there might not be a lot, if anything that could be done about it at that late stage. I know this probably sounds harsh. Sorry.

Thankyou for your reply Wendy! :tinysmile_grin_t:


This is what I thought at the back of my mind. I guess she must of had letters previously, but never dealt/forgot about them,which is unfortunate. I don't know much about bailiffs myself either, we've had parking tickets in the past but have always paid them before getting to court stage.

40 or 80 quid for the parking ticket itself is better than paying those extortionate bailiff/court fees (unless you can dispute with a valid reason for not having a parking ticket in the first place)

It was just really upsetting to hear of her predicament. Think I will have to tell my sister in law the bad news.....



Bf xx

[WendyB]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

If you are going to dispute the ticket in the first place it usually has to be done within 14 days. In fact I always dispute as a metter of principle - it freezes the amount while the appeal is going on and gives you longer to find the money etc. Last two i had took them so long to deal with they cancelled them in the end.

Your sister in law is very lucky, really, that she had 651 quid to give the bailiffs, I know I haven't got 651 pence hanging about, much less 651 quid

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Did she see any paperwork at all? What about the original ticket, does she still have that, or any of the letters informing her that the matter had been passed to the bailiffs?

The first thing to do is to send to the bailiffs firm (and copy the local authority where the alleged parking infringement occurred) a Subject Access Request along with £10 in order to obtain a full breakdown of the fees, how they have arrived at such a figure and request copies of all correspondence prior to their visit, details of any other visits etc. I have provided a draft below.

Dear Sir/Madam

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

I was visited by (name bailiffs) on (date) and was pressured into paying the sum of £651.68 for an alleged parking infringement on (date)

The bailiffs did not provide any written authorisation that they were acting on behalf of the council/authority. Their approach was to bully me into paying. I mentioned that by paying the bill, I would be left without any money and their response was that they were in possession of a warrant to enter my house by any means and would take goods and I would have further fees to pay. At this point, not knowing the procedure and my rights, I paid, although I was not shown a warrant and have no information at all, save for a receipt for the sum of £651.68.

Accordingly, kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque.

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you visited me at and at which your bailiffs relieved me of the sum of £651.68.


Yours faithfully




(Your Name)

cc. (Your local authority)

Your sister should also consider a complaint to the local authority, as this type of behaviour is a clear breach of the “National Standard for Enforcement Agents” which, among other things states that

“Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor”

“Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness”

“Enforcement agents will on each occasion when a visit is made to a debtor’s property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided”

It would appear that she has been treated very badly and this will not stand. If you can provide further information when she has a reply from CCS Enforcement Services we can advise further, but upon initial examination and knowing bailiffs I would suspect a large proportion of the sum she has paid may be recoverable as it may have been unlawfully taken.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Did she see any paperwork at all? No, unfortunatley What about the original ticket, does she still have that, or any of the letters informing her that the matter had been passed to the bailiffs? I will ask her about this tonight..

The first thing to do is to send to the bailiffs firm (and copy the local authority where the alleged parking infringement occurred) a Subject Access Request along with £10 in order to obtain a full breakdown of the fees, how they have arrived at such a figure and request copies of all correspondence prior to their visit, details of any other visits etc. I have provided a draft below.

Your sister should also consider a complaint to the local authority, as this type of behaviour is a clear breach of the “National Standard for Enforcement Agents” which, among other things states that

“Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor”

“Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness”

“Enforcement agents will on each occasion when a visit is made to a debtor’s property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided”

It would appear that she has been treated very badly and this will not stand. If you can provide further information when she has a reply from CCS Enforcement Services we can advise further, but upon initial examination and knowing bailiffs I would suspect a large proportion of the sum she has paid may be recoverable as it may have been unlawfully taken.

Hi Cetelco !:tinysmile_grin_t:

Thankyou so much for your reply and your SAR draft Cetelco..my SIL will be chuffed to hear this.. she has been rather down since this happened. I spoke to her earlier on the phone and was ready to give her bad news, but held back to await your response. As I have been told you are the man to deal with bailiff issues.

I will be doing all the paperwork for her on her behalf, as she hasnt got much time to sit down and do it(caring for my nephew is a full time job)

I will ask her for all the relevant info we need to persue CCS..Thankyou once again..( I will send off the SAR on her behalf A.S.A.P then we can take it from there.)



Bf xx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Try to get as much information as possible and we can draft a formal complaint to the local authority and if needs be also refer the complaint on to the Local Government Ombudsman on grounds of maladministration regarding their flawed procedures and failure to control their agent CCS Enforcement Services.

The behaviour of the bailiffs in their employ is reprehensible and the failure to provide an itemisation of charges not only clearly broke the National Standards for Enforcement Agents but also contravenes the Office of Fair Trading’s Debt Collection Guidance.

Under the heading of “charging for debt collection” the OFT gives examples of unfair practices, one of which is “applying unreasonable charges, e.g. charges not based on actual and necessary costs”. I would suggest that CCS applied unreasonable charges. Furthermore, the OFT published guidance on debt collection and will withdraw Consumer Credit Licences from bailiff firms who allegedly fail to comply with the guidance even when fully complying with the provisions of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. In essence, the OFT, whilst accepting that the guidance only applies to the collection of consumer debt, makes clear that any unfair or inappropriate action by a bailiff, regardless of whether it relates to the collection of consumer debt or otherwise, will be considered by the OFT as “...evidence relating to the fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.”

The local authority are vicariously liable in this matter and are equally culpable for any unlawful actions carried out by any of their agents and this must be communicated to them in the strongest possible terms.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Try to get as much information as possible and we can draft a formal complaint to the local authority and if needs be also refer the complaint on to the Local Government Ombudsman on grounds of maladministration regarding their flawed procedures and failure to control their agent CCS Enforcement Services.

The behaviour of the bailiffs in their employ is reprehensible and the failure to provide an itemisation of charges not only clearly broke the National Standards for Enforcement Agents but also contravenes the Office of Fair Trading’s Debt Collection Guidance.

Under the heading of “charging for debt collection” the OFT gives examples of unfair practices, one of which is “applying unreasonable charges, e.g. charges not based on actual and necessary costs”. I would suggest that CCS applied unreasonable charges. Furthermore, the OFT published guidance on debt collection and will withdraw Consumer Credit Licences from bailiff firms who allegedly fail to comply with the guidance even when fully complying with the provisions of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. In essence, the OFT, whilst accepting that the guidance only applies to the collection of consumer debt, makes clear that any unfair or inappropriate action by a bailiff, regardless of whether it relates to the collection of consumer debt or otherwise, will be considered by the OFT as “...evidence relating to the fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.”

The local authority are vicariously liable in this matter and are equally culpable for any unlawful actions carried out by any of their agents and this must be communicated to them in the strongest possible terms.

Hi Cetelco



Ive been fishing for some more info from my Sister in Law regarding her situation...

The local authority who were dealing with the parking infringement were..... The Parking Shop, based in Kingston-Upon -Thames, Surrey.

She cant find any paperwork relating to a parking ticket, so she gave their office a call and it turns out that the date the infringement took place was on the 28th April 2007, and the ticket was in my brothers name (her husband ) She was really shocked to hear that the matter has somehow laid 'dormant' for 18 months. If they did receive notification/reminders she would of kept it and dealt with it accordingly at that particular time, especially before getting to the 'bailiff stage'.

For her to see two bailiffs on her doorstep after 18 months demanding £651 seems quite strange to us...

I have also asked her to dictate to me what words were exchanged between herself and the bailiffs. I have typed up a detailed account of the conversation between my sister in law and the bailiffs. to give everyone a better idea of what occurred and how they treated her... ( The time they knocked was 8.30 in the morning when my brother was at work.) They were very intimidating to say the least....


Bailiffs - Is Mr ***** there?
SIL - No I'm sorry, hes at work
Bailiffs - We wanna come inside and speak to him regarding a debt and have come to collect a full payment from you.
SIL- As I have said hes not here, he is at work. Can you not speak to me?
Bailiffs - No, you can call him at work and then we wanna come inside and speak to him on your phone to collect payment,,we have a warrant
SIL - I can give you his works number , you don't need to come inside,you can call him yourself to discuss it,what is the debt for?
(By this time they had not shown a warrant or any paperwork and pushed her front door open and forced their way into her hallway, they stood there and wouldn't move til she called her husband at work)

One bailiff came into her living room told her husband on the phone (the other bailiff stood in the hallway ) that they have come to collect full payment owing to Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames or they will seize goods.

They were both bullied and had no choice but to make payment of £651.68

They both then left, leaving her with only a receipt.





BF xx

[Guest]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

This is very interesting.

It is imperative that the SAR is sent to CCS Enforcement Services, has that been done yet?

You must also request a copy of the Warrant of Execution, which will be on a Form PE9.

Under the Code of Practice from the Traffic Enforcement Centre it states the following:

“The warrant must be enforced as a county court warrant. The certificated bailiff must have the warrant in his personal possession when he visits a person or premises with a view to enforcing it and he must produce it on demand to anyone who has reasonable grounds to see it.”

If, as they claimed at the time, they had a warrant, they should have no difficulty in sending you a copy.

Once you have this, you should have your sister in law check the date on which the Warrant was issued. This is because a Warrant is valid for just 12 months from the date of issue. The warrant will expire after 12 months and cannot be renewed and it is illegal for a bailiff to enforce a warrant that has expired.

You should also ensure you have the details of the bailiffs who attended, in order that we can confirm that they are certificated. It is a criminal offence for a bailiff, who is not in possession of a current certificate, to visit you and collect payments for unpaid parking fines.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Cetelco and All !

Update....

While I am waiting for a reply from CCS on behalf of my sister- in- law with regards to sending off Cets SAR, I am gonna start a new thread of my own...

...I have been doing some thinking (Which doesn't really happen a lot ! LOL) and think I may have a case on behalf of my O/H to pursue a claim against Drakes Bailiffs. This was 2 or 3 years ago ( and long before I knew about Legal Beagles, consumer rights and reclaiming websites) but am pretty sure he had been overcharged with their extortionate fees for a parking ticket the same as my SIL.

However, as I cant seem to find any paperwork in our house relating to Drakes, the first port of call would be to send them an SAR before pursuing them.

Since helping my sister in law, I have been doing alot of reading on this 'Bailiffs' thread and learnt so much more about them and thier underhanded unscrupulous behaviour and the way they think they can bully people. It is quite shocking.

ooops, nearly forgot, does anyone know what the address is for Drakes I send the SAR too? I believe that Drakes took over Marstons, ( I think) but not sure where they are based.


BF xx

[Tools]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Marston Group, Privacy Statement and Accessibility


Data Protection

The personal information provided by you will be on a database and will not be shared with third parties. It is the policy of Marston Group to observe the provisions of the European Directive 95/46/EC ("the Directive") relating to the protection of personal data and, in particular, as The Marston Group is situated in the UK, the provisions of the UK Data Protection Acts 1984 and 1998 ("the UK legislation").


Marston Group Limited Registered Office:
50 Broadway, Westminster, London, SW1H 0BL
Registered No. 2512508 Vat No. 795928947

Marston Group Limited, PO Box 308, Waltham Cross, Essex, EN9 1ZN
Tel: 01992 703 700, Fax: 01992 703 703, Email: info@marstongroup.co.uk
Debtor enquiry phone line: 0870 787 9555

Just some details for you BF

I would address a full SAR to their registered office in Westminster, recorded delivery and mark for the attention of "The Data Controller"

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Thank you for this info Tools, your a star !!!! Bf xx

[BAILIFFCHASER]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Once you get a reply then post back. will guide you through what and how to do it.

[bloomingflower]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Once you get a reply then post back. will guide you through what and how to do it.

Hi Bailiffchaser !


Thankyou for that. I really appreciate it.

I will be sending off my o/hs SAR to Drakes tomorrow (have been stuck at home in bed with flu symptoms and am slowly getting over it now, boo hoo lol) as haven't had a chance the last few days...but as soon as I get a reply from them I will post it up a.s.a.p...

With regards to my sister in laws SAR...it was sent off only on the 3rd of October,so they have up to 40 days to reply...

.. its just a case of waiting now...



Bf xx

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Sister-in-Laws parking ticket/Bailiff visit

Hi Bailiffchaser !


Thankyou for that. I really appreciate it.

I will be sending off my o/hs SAR to Drakes tomorrow (have been stuck at home in bed with flu symptoms and am slowly getting over it now, boo hoo lol) as haven't had a chance the last few days...but as soon as I get a reply from them I will post it up a.s.a.p...

With regards to my sister in laws SAR...it was sent off only on the 3rd of October,so they have up to 40 days to reply...

.. its just a case of waiting now...



Bf xx

That means about 15th Nov to fully comply with your sisters SAR. I only know this as I sent one to Black Horse which was delievered on 6th Oc so my calcs work out to 15th Nov for them. Your sis's would be same if it landed with them on 6th Oct.